NFL Draft General Discussion

I'd tag all the regulars but I'm a bit short on time, so hopefully everyone finds their way over for this question. I'd like to get some opinions just to get a feel for what the temperature in the room is on this particular subject.

What's everyone's thoughts on Zach Wilson? Do you have your rankings for QBs wrapped up yet, where do you slot him and what are the primary points you base this opinion on?

 

I like him. I think he goes high in the draft, maybe #2 overall. Arguments against him are quieting, but the main gripe I heard was the schedule he played, but he cant help that... he was fantastic with what was given him. Over 3 years at BYU he dramatically increased his production and got consistently better.

Here is his line for 2020: 247-336 (73.5%), 3,692 yards, 33/3 (TD/INT), 70 rush, 254 yards, 10 TD............. thats not too shabby.

I was a fan of his earlier too, I think he has what the NFL is looking for as the League seems to be trending to more of a college type offenses. Some room for improvement , no doubt, but a solid gamer. Ive read that he dangerous with his feet also and must be contained in the pocket by defenses. He's accurate as a 73.5% would indicate and he has an arm.

Its funny to me how his draft-stock is rocketing to the top... im not sure why, but more and more scouts and writers are jumping on his bandwagon. I think the Jets go for him, to be honest.
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My QB list is as follows;
1) Trevor Lawrence
2) Zack Wilson
3) Justin Fields
4) Trey Lance
5) Mac Jones
After this, I think its a, flip a quarter time... Im thinking 5 QB's might go in the 1st round. My QB rankings are pretty popular with writers and scouts and to be honest, i dont know enough to change that order in any drastic fashion.

 

Fine...I'll bite. I think he's grossly overrated and the perfect media darling.

Since the last day where college players could declare for the draft last April, Trevor Lawrence was the #1 pick to everybody going into the 2021 draft. That wasn't a secret then and isn't a secret now. Sadly, you can't create TOO much controversy about that, because before/after injury, Lawrence balled out this past season. It's boring and monotonous to sell/publish articles for clicks/money when everybody knows the answer is Trevor Lawrence, which is why the Chris Simms' of the pundit world have to push this kid being Aaron Rodgers to create controversy.

I'll preface with this--I don't blame Zach Wilson or BYU for a fucked up 2020 Covid Schedule and getting stuck with what he was stuck with. With the hand he/BYU were dealt in terms of the schedule being jumbled by NCAA to just conference play (and BYU without a conference), it's obvious that he made the most of it with a successful 2020 so credit to him.

I also like he's a 3-year starter. I do like that yes--he did improve from 2019 to 2020 statistically--which you want of any college QB being considered for the draft. He's got the arm and the accuracy to sling a pretty pass. Of course, that CAN translate depending on the situation he's in. I think if he goes to anybody in the top 5 he'll be roadkill/run out of town in 2-3 years. I think certain teams who have an established OLine can get the best out of him.

That being said--I just find it incredibly difficult to get excited about a guy who dunked on a schedule of cupcakes (I believe all but 3 BYU opponents not including the bowl game were under 500 with defenses ranked in the 70s or worse) like Texas State, Texas-San Antonio, Houston (after losing their playmakers to the 2020 draft), North Alabama, Western Kentucky, Navy (who isn't allowed to have anyone over 250 lbs)--basically short of 1 team (Coastal Carolina) who had the #22 college defense in 2020--who made him look like just another guy because they could get to him/confuse him. If Coastal Carolina shifting coverages looking like man coverage but really zone or vice-versa--what will the Vic Fangios or the Robert Salehs or the Brian Flores or Brandon Staley (good defensive minds) do to him?

Then you start to dig deeper--looking at 2019 and you begin to see a trend where good college defenses (USC, Washington, Utah) all did the same--make him look like just another guy. You also see the trend in 2019 and 2018 that he isn't slinging 30+ TDs a season; no--he barely eclipsed 10 in his first 2 years as a starter.

All top college DBs who aren't 4th rate and 5 steps behind his guy as he gets clean, 5+ second pockets didn't let him make the plays he could this year. He's just not going to get that in the NFL. His comp is Johnny Manziel/nickname is 'Mormon Manziel.' I'm sure the browns fans on this page can tell us what Johnny did at QB/his flaws on the field as well as off the field--which Wilson luckily doesn't partake in being an assclown that we know of.

My QB rankings are Lawrence 1, Fields 2, Jones 3, Wilson 4, Lance 5, Trask/Mond 5/6 (I think Trask fits/can have good success with certain systems like an Andy Reid system but would be god-awful in a traditional offense whereas overall Mond I like more for that flexibility), the Stanford kid 7. I personally wouldn't touch Wilson in the top 20, but I know that probably isn't happening next month.

 

Pretty much what he ^^^^^^ said.

 

I'm not close to done but I currently have Wilson at #2 and I don't necessarily have Fields at 3.

 

Honestly have not looked much at him because barring a catastrophic tumble down the board the Steelers have no shot at him. The little I have seen has been pretty impressive. Have to say what patg006 said does give me pause. Still think he goes top 5, seems to be a possible franchise passer, but if college defenses confused the guy, the defenses of the NFL will confuse the heck out of him. He might be one to benefit from an Aaron Rodgers-like situation, but that’s just not the norm in today’s NFL. Teams throw the young guys into the fire right away.

 

BYU has only had one good QB in the NFL Steve Young. McMann was ok but he played on a ridiculously good Bears team. BYU QBs seem to mostly suck at the NFL level. So let the Jets go from bad to worse

 

Are you drunk? Stoned?

 

He completes the trifecta by also being stupid.

 

So the main reason I threw this question out is to see whether or not the room would be split, majority with the idea of him being a legit climber or majority against the same idea. Seeing a split room doesn't surprise me with the group we have here, and it goes along with what I have for Wilson so far.

I see some serious red flags in his next level projection and some of the stuff I'm reading on him feels like pundits are really trying to create some kind of hype around him for the sake of having an artificial talking point, whether it be about Wilson possibly being better than Lawrence (pure fucking lunacy) or that New York needs to dump Darnold for Zach (makes zero sense based on the situation).

As a passer, Wilson suffers some set backs in all 4 categories. His target accuracy comes and goes, his touch to arc is hit and miss, his anticipation accuracy appears more as a byproduct of chance rather than design, and his ball placement can be atrocious at times.

The athleticism is a bigger question mark than what is being billed, IMO. What sells for an athletic quarterback at the college level can sometimes be woefully inadequate at the pro level. So, is he Baker or Russell in that regard? I'm thinking more Mayfield, which would be a problem with his style of play.

The processing speed is just too slow. I'm not saying he can't correct it, but when you combine that with an inability to feel the rush at a more controlled rate, poor anticipation and poor placement, just how exactly is he supposed to deal with and overcome the increased speed at the next level?

I still have a lot of work to do (I'm WAY behind this season compared to others) but if I had to take a guess on how my rankings may come out in the end (only listed to Wilson):

1. Lawrence
2. Lance
3. Fields
4. Trask
5. Wilson

Both Trask and Wilson look like they are going to end up with late first round scores while Fields and Lance are likely mid to upper mid.

 

Wilson is the guy I have the most "scouting" to do of the consensus top 6 QBs. He is tentatively at 2. The rest of your list is my current order.

 

I personally have this:
1. Lawrence
2. Lance
3. Wilson
4. Fields
5. Jones
6. Trask

Lawrence for the obvious reasons is #1.

I am a big believer in Lance assuming he can sit for a year and learn from a seasoned vet ala Mahomes.

Wilson is a guy I noticed early last season but from what I’ve seen, he can make almost every throw and doesn’t get too rattled.

Fields for me has the unfortunate stigma of busts from OSU. The kid is talented but watching the Northwestern game closely, he rarely looked comfortable. His ceiling is crazy high but his floor is the lowest of my top-5.

 

New 2021 Round 1 Draft order after the blockbuster trades...

Round 1
1) Jacksonville Jaguars
2) New York Jets
3) San Francisco 49ers (from Houston Texans through Miami Dolphins)
4) Atlanta Falcons
5) Cincinnati Bengals
6) Miami Dolphins (from Philadelphia Eagles)
7) Detroit Lions
8) Carolina Panthers
9) Denver Broncos
10) Dallas Cowboys
11) New York Giants
12) Philadelphia Eagles (from San Francisco 49ers through Miami Dolphins)
13) Los Angeles Chargers
14) Minnesota Vikings
15) New England Patriots
16) Arizona Cardinals
17) Las Vegas Raiders
18) Miami Dolphins
19) Washington Football Team
20) Chicago Bears
21) Indianapolis Colts
22) Tennessee Titans
23) New York Jets (from Seattle Seahawks)
24) Pittsburgh Steelers
25) Jacksonville Jaguars (from Los Angeles Rams)
26) Cleveland Browns
27) Baltimore Ravens
28) New Orleans Saints
29) Green Bay Packers
30) Buffalo Bills
31) Kansas City Chiefs
32) Tampa Bay Buccaneers

 

Round 2
33) Jacksonville Jaguars
34) New York Jets
35) Atlanta Falcons
36) Miami Dolphins (from Houston Texans)
37) Philadelphia Eagles
38) Cincinnati Bengals
39) Carolina Panthers
40) Denver Broncos
41) Detroit Lions
42) New York Giants
43) San Francisco 49ers
44) Dallas Cowboys
45) Jacksonville Jaguars (from Minnesota Vikings)
46) New England Patriots
47) Los Angeles Chargers
48) Las Vegas Raiders
49) Arizona Cardinals
50) Miami Dolphins
51) Washington Football Team
52) Chicago Bears
53) Tennessee Titans
54) Indianapolis Colts
55) Pittsburgh Steelers
56) Seattle Seahawks
57) Los Angeles Rams
58) Baltimore Ravens
59) Cleveland Browns
60) New Orleans Saints
61) Buffalo Bills
62) Green Bay Packers
63) Kansas City Chiefs
64) Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Round 3
65) Jacksonville Jaguars
66) New York Jets
67) Houston Texans
68) Atlanta Falcons
69) Cincinnati Bengals
70) Philadelphia Eagles
71) Denver Broncos
72) Detroit Lions
73) Carolina Panthers
74) Washington Football Team (from San Francisco 49ers)
75) Dallas Cowboys
76) New York Giants
77) Los Angeles Chargers
78) Minnesota Vikings
79) Las Vegas Raiders (from Arizona Cardinals)
80) Las Vegas Raiders
81) Miami Dolphins
82) Washington Football Team
83) Chicago Bears
84) Philadelphia Eagles (from Indianapolis Colts)
85) Tennessee Titans
86) New York Jets (from Seattle Seahawks)
87) Pittsburgh Steelers
88) Los Angeles Rams
89) Cleveland Browns
90) Minnesota Vikings (from Baltimore Ravens)
91) Cleveland Browns (from New Orleans Saints)
92) Green Bay Packers
93) Buffalo Bills
94) Kansas City Chiefs
95) Tampa Bay Buccaneers
96) New England Patriots (compensatory selection)
97) Los Angeles Chargers (compensatory selection)
98) New Orleans Saints (compensatory selection)
99) Dallas Cowboys (compensatory selection)
100) Tennessee Titans (compensatory selection)
101) Detroit Lions (from Los Angeles Rams; compensatory selection)
102) San Francisco 49ers (special compensatory selection)
103) Los Angeles Rams (special compensatory selection)
104) Baltimore Ravens (special compensatory selection)
105) New Orleans Saints (special compensatory selection)

 

Justin Fields runs 4.44-second 40-yard dash



Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields showed off impressive speed at Ohio State’s Pro Day.

Fields was clocked in 4.44 seconds in the 40-yard dash, a rare time for a quarterback.

According to Pro Football Reference, only three quarterbacks have run faster 40s at the Scouting Combine since 2000: Robert Griffin III, Michael Vick and Reggie McNeal.

Of course, running 40 yards in a straight line is hardly the most important ability in a quarterback, and it’s Fields’ arm, not his legs, that makes him a first-round prospect. But NFL teams are bound to be impressed by that 40 time.

NBC

Hell, Im impressed.

 

OSU coach Ryan Day calls out 'reckless' comments about QB Justin Fields' work ethic

The gap in the NFL calendar between the deluge of free agency and the beginning of the draft leaves a void often filled with unhealthy intakes. The main confectionery course consumed haphazardly comes from anonymous sources and scouts. These takes can be unflattering to players, can come out of context and are sometimes made nefariously with an ulterior motive in mind.

The 2021 Exhibit A for the peril of listening to anonymous sources this time of year is Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields.

The future first-round pick was the center of controversy last week when former NFL QB-turned-analyst Dan Orlovsky suggested he'd been told some teams were concerned about Fields' work ethic and desire to be great.

Since the comments were made on "The Pat McAfee Show," they've been shot down from virtually every angle. OSU coach Ryan Day is the latest to chime in, telling Peter King of NBC Sports that the notion Fields lacks work ethic is laughable.

"The whole idea that he doesn't have a very good work ethic?" Day told King. "I mean, to me, that's crazy. He got done with the Clemson game [the loss in the college football playoffs in the 2019 season] and he came back and all he did was work to get back to that game. And when those other guys are opting out, what's he do? He petitions to have a season. He put together this petition that the Big Ten athletes all signed saying that they want to play, but they want to play safely and that they don't accept canceling the season. It was all led by Justin Fields. Where was everybody else? Where were the guys who were opting out then? You know, you don't love the game if you're doing something like that. This kid loves the game.

"I heard something about the last one to come in, first one to leave. First off, the scouts weren't in our building all year. Last one in? Every morning, at least every morning we could be in the building, early, he's in with [assistant AD for football sports performance] Mickey Marotti. The guys who were self-motivated and could do things on their own, those were the ones who made it. He was unbelievable. He changed his diet, he got stronger. He did better than most."

Fields famously took a massive body shot to the ribcage during the second quarter of the Buckeyes' playoff game against Clemson last season. The QB missed just one play and returned to throw four more TDs. It's the type of play that makes the notion that Fields doesn't want to be great absurd.

"I think some people are being a little reckless with their comments," Day noted.

For his part, Orlovsky noted his mistake in offering criticisms without context. The ESPN analyst told King he spoke to Fields on the phone after the firestorm and apologized.

"Justin didn't have to take my phone call," Orlovsky said. "He could have said, Screw that guy. I told him exactly what happened, said I wasn't good enough in that moment, and that's on me. He was like, 'I get it. It's okay. I watch, and I know you're someone who's had my back. I appreciate you calling me.' I felt like he was really mature, and I appreciated him hearing me out."

The controversy won't keep Fields' name from being called early on Thursday, April 29, perhaps within the first three picks of the draft. It's the latest reminder not to put too much stock in what people will say this time of year without having to put their names behind those comments.

NFL.com
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When Fields goes in the Top 5 of the Draft... he will get the last word.

 

Fixed it for you

 

Jerry Jones reportedly “infatuated” with Kyle Pitts



If Jerry Jones wants to make a splash in the NFL draft, there’s no bigger move he could make than trading up to draft Florida tight end Kyle Pitts. And Jones may do that.

Jones loves Pitts and would consider moving up from the 10th overall pick to get him, according to Chris Mortensen of ESPN.

“We’re hearing this thing about Jerry Jones, the owner of the Cowboys — and the GM — being infatuated with Kyle Pitts,” Mortensen said on ESPN. “He’s going to have to trade up to get Kyle Pitts. He spent $40 million a year on Dak Prescott, so why not go get Kyle Pitts?”

Moving up high enough to draft Pitts would probably require the Cowboys to move up to No. 5, or perhaps No. 4, and that would likely mean giving up their 2022 first-round pick, as the Dolphins did when they traded up from No. 12 to No. 6. That’s a steep price. And any time a report like this comes out, the question becomes who is leaking it and why — it could be leaked by someone who wants to drive up the price of a trade up, perhaps driving it up too high for Jones.

NBC

 

Mac Jones once again becomes the betting favorite to go No. 3 overall



The pendulum keeps swinging regarding the third overall pick.

Via PointsBet, Alabama quarterback Mac Jones is once again the favorite, at -150. Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields has -105 odds. North Dakota State quarterback Trey Lance has +325 odds.

Last week, Fields became the favorite at -125. Jones had moved to +100, with Lance at +450.

On March 29, Lance was the favorite at +130. Fields had odds of +150, and Jones stood at +160. By April 8, Jones had moved to the -200 favorite, with Fields at +250 and Lance at +300.

Despite a suggestion that the 49ers made the move without knowing which player they’d take, it’s more likely that the investment used to jump from No. 12 to No. 3 with a specific player in mind. Currently, the favorite is once again Mac Jones.

NBC

 

Translation NOBODY FUCKING KNOWS FOR CERTAIN OUTSIDE THE OFFICE.

But someone after the fact will say they got the scoop.