Good news...

Discussion in 'Chicago Bears' started by BearsWillWin, Dec 7, 2020.

  1. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

  2. patg006 M.V.P. Bears

    Ehhhh....Kaplan's a bit of a tool and this isn't the first article suggesting Ted could leave/step down/get demoted/get fired...

    If Ted Phillips retires, it won't be because of how bad the team is doing now. It will be because he's been with the bears since the mid-1980s and just wants to leave and enjoy his life at however old he is. Bears were worth 540 million in 2002, they're now worth 3.52 billion (per Forbes). He's around for a reason. The McCaskeys aren't selling the team, so we have to operate with this unfortunate condition. And to be fair, I don't think he's the boogeyman some people are propping him up to be right now. This mess is Ryan Pace and individual failures in execution unless you can show me ol' sweaty Ted had his fingerprints on trading up 1 spot for Mitch and missing on him and 2 other QBs, trading up for Leonard Floyd and cutting him only to see him figure it out with someone else, paying Robert Quinn, Leno, Massie, trading for Foles, getting a sack or a turnover on and on and on. There was a time he did try to get involved in football operations when he's the money guy--but there's no indication he's done that with Ryan Pace. I'd be happy to be wrong if you can show me. Otherwise know Pace's misses, but I can't put those on Phillips. He was with George, Virginia, other McCaskeys, the board (they have 2 non-fam owners) when they hired the consultant Ernie, a football guy--who told them to hire Pace because he's a football guy and that's what they did.

    They guessed wrong and this is what we got. That doesn't mean trying that again couldn't work. The grim reality is that we have to hope the next GM doesn't treat draft capital like Pace did, doesn't put himself in a hole where he has to fuck the cap to make up for it, and doesn't hire a fraud masquerading as an 'offensive genius' when the signs were there in a game Reid let him call plays, and he lost to the Jets in December 2017 running the ball 11 times. Where've we seen that before?
     
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  3. vvarder Franchise Player Bears

    I don't believe the article either, but I'm going to disagree with you a bit here. I think if you have George and Ted go pick another GM, honestly what do you think is going to make it better? Are you thinking they get a *different* consultant to help them hire a GM? Where is your optimism coming from?

    I agree Pace is to blame for all those reasons you mention. But the GM has been a problem for a long fucking time, and that's because of the man who's been HIRING those GMs. And the common factor is the McCaskey's (which are going nowhere) and the "President" of Football Operations Teddy. Fuck him, even if he is "just a bean counter".

    Where I also agree is that ultimately they're going to have to keep swinging at GM. I don't even really fault them too much for Pace, he said a lot of the right things, including draft a QB every year. But then Pace fell in love with Trubs and sold the fucking farm and his career on it and did everything to ensure that it was Trubs or bust. That failed and he left himself no outs, so it's time to burn it down.

    Presidents, GMs, even Head Coaches. These are all things that are hard to find, no matter who's doing the choosing. And the Bears have failed repeatedly here.
     
  4. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

    He is but he's also very well connected with Halas Hall. Has been for a while.

    I agree and disagree with all of this at the same exact time.

    Ted doesn't make football decisions. But he has to approve all major moves that cost either draft capital or money. So that means the trades for Cutler, Mack, and Trubisky were at least ran by him. Now maybe he rubber stamps everything the GM wants...and I could see that. But he's still in a role of being a final approver of sorts. And his lack of football knowledge plays a role there. Not saying any owner or prez would have put a veto on any of those moves. But if Phillips is simply a guy that says yes all the time....that's not helpful.

    Phillips has played a role in the hiring of Jerry Angelo, Phil Emery, and Ryan Pace. In all 3 instances the team used outside help in finding their GM. So again...he's simply doing what someone else tells him to do. And again...I have a problem with that. The guy running the team day to day should be able to interview and hire his own GM.

    If success starts at the top....Phillips has to share a certain amount of blame as well. The QB fails...the coach is responsible. The coach fails....the GM is responsible. GM fails....President is responsible. The President fails...it's on the owner.

    If Virginia had put a football guy in charge in 1999 when she pushed her retarded son aside....then they wouldn't have to bring in outside help to find GMs.

    They've tried 3 times in the last 20 years and for the most part have failed. Angelo had some success...made it to the dance but the team didn't finish. Then we got Emery and now Pace. It's been nothing short of a disaster for the most part. I have a hard time being positive about the next guy if the brass at the top stays the same.


    As far as Ted retiring.....there's heat on him from outside the organization...more than ever. And there's been the long standing rumor that Virginia treats him like a son but some of his adopted siblings can't stand him. So I could see him trying to gracefully step out before Momma dies.
     
  5. blang84 Legend Bears

    This is why it's hard to hope for anything good, ever. We know the McCaskeys don't know who is a good football guy, then they bring in someone who still manages to fuck up the task of bringing in a good football guy. In a way, they did the right thing, acknowledging they aren't qualified to make a decision on a GM. And it still went wrong.

    Great. And then what? Virginia needs to die, then the family needs to have some major internal squabbling, be forced to sell as a result, and then we can have some hope. But it all starts with Virginia dying. Until then, certainly nothing will change, but there's a chance things do afterwards.
     
  6. blang84 Legend Bears

    I ask this question partially out of ignorance, but was George Halas actually a good owner for the modern era? Nearly all of his success came in the early pre-WW2 days of the league. The team won a championship in the early 60s but then sucked for the next 20 years, most of which he was still alive. I'm starting to think the game passed him by decades before his death and we've been stuck with his crappy family since.
     
  7. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

    I agree.
     
  8. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

    He was cheap and not really a very good owner. I still wonder what sort of executive Mugs would have been.
     
  9. patg006 M.V.P. Bears

    Grain of salt. I'll own being a contrarian here: So does Hub Arkush...

    Cleaning the whole house and selling the team is my preference. That isn't happening. So the bears operate under these defined terms; and whether we like it or not--Ted's a part of it until he's not--and no outside pressure is going to force the McCaskeys to make the guy who turned them into a multi-billion dollar franchise leave. I'm not oblivious to results that he's had a hand in. I'm aware Ted at one point had his fingers all over the bears/moves/was out of his wheelhouse. Dave Wannstedt is a guest on AM670 frequently and tells stories all the time.

    I don't like it, but here I'll defend Ted and the McCaskeys these past 5 years. Forget how you want them to sell/hate Ted for a second--They did exactly what everybody told them to do. They found a consultant (Ernie Accorsi) who was widely considered "the smart football guy" and well respected/knows how to run a competent team, etc. Etc. Etc. Said football guy, Ernie--sat in during the last GM search and picked Ryan Pace. The bears went with Pace and gave the reigns to him. While I'm sure for big moves Pace needed approval (we know he did about Mack), I need to see Teddy directly affecting decisions made, because he's being propped up as the boogeyman by bears fans and I don't believe Ryan Pace should be a sliver of a percentage off the hook. This roster, this coach, this scheme is Pace's decision unless/until you can show me otherwise.

    You can't have it both ways. You can't complain about sweaty Teddy putting his fingers in the pie in the past when he fucking shouldn't have as business operations is his wheelhouse/lump him in with the results then blame him when Ryan Pace fucked this team with the autonomy given to him by ownership/the board (which ol' Sweaty Teddy is also on) and Teddy not stepping in.

    That, and saying "get a football guy" is a vast generalization that lacks explanation. It's a cheap talking point that skirts defining the terms. We chastise Accorsi and Pace now because it didn't work. Okay--who should they have hired/consulted with? What should they have done differently in 2015? Do you want to make the argument in hindsight for Chris Ballard over Pace (don't remember any other names in the GM search at that point except the Baltimore guy who declined an initial interview because he was the special assistant to GM when JA fucked them with Carimi trade debacle) so add? Go nuts with that assertion as Ballard in Indy has had success (and failures).

    For example, let's look at the Steelers (apologies ahead of time because a certain fucknozzle is sure to enter the conversation and dazzle us with his retardation). The Rooney family has a football guy at GM just like Pace with the bears. The president is one of the Rooney kids (who also runs another non-NFL business), not some football guy. Why is their hierarchy--a family-owned business like the bears--working but the McCaskeys cant?

    We know the answer. Good QB, competent talent evaluator, and a smart coach who put it together with a plan to protect the QB and get after the other teams. Bears have the same half of that. They want to get it and the guy they picked didn't deliver.

    So where do you go from here? You take another fucking swing because the team isn't being sold and Teddy isn't going anywhere, hoping they're giving the new guy full autonomy Pace had the same comfort of. Find a guy who isn't going to put the cart before the horse. Find a guy who isn't going to look at QBs the way Pace evaluated Mahomes, Watson, and Mitch. Find a guy who isn't going to quit building an offense just to stack the defense with names that can't perform. Find a guy who doesn't fuck the cap because he's constantly fixing his own holes/mess, treat draft capital like singles at the center-stage of the strip club.

    Who is that guy? Don't know. John Dorsey put together KC just before they picked Mahomes before getting fired. He did the same with Cleveland too. Louis Riddick is highly intelligent. Is Lake Dawson (Buffalo Bills director of scouting) the guy? A Seahawks FO guy? Pass on the NE names unless Belichick is coming with...

    My one present critique of George/Ted has to do with the new rules of interviewing GM/HC candidates released yesterday (NFL Network's Tom Pelissero put the breakdown into a tweet I'll look for). The NFL will allow you to E-interview anyone you want, but you can't meet with them in person until after the team is eliminated from playoffs. Meaning the bears can talk to people NOW. Even if you want a guy from a winner, you can talk to him NOW.
     
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  10. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

    It absolutely belongs to Pace.

    But Pace, like it or not, belongs to Ted Phillips.

    Yes an outside advisor told them to hire Pace. And if he had said hire any random jackass they probably would have. But by title alone....it belongs to Phillips.

    If he is the President of the team....he owns everything that happens under him.
     
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  11. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

    What you're failing to see is the Bears were forced to bring in Accorsi because they put a guy in charge that knows nothing about football.

    Cause and effect. If someone with football acumen is calling the shots....no need for Accorsi.

    This isn't about hindsight for me. Pace was the chosen guy and he failed. It happens. But the same structure is gonna be in place now if Pace is shitcanned. Aren't they just gonna be advised, again, from an outside source?

    That pattern ends when there is someone at the top that can intelligently and confidently make a decision that has an impact on the football field.

    Having a President that has to call for help when a football decision is needed isn't a recipe for success.
     
  12. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

    And I do have a guy in mind....

    Brandon Beane. Probably very unrealistic....but I'd try to talk to him.
     
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  13. patg006 M.V.P. Bears

    And George. And Virginia, the other McCaskeys on the board, and the two minority owners.

    Who aren't going anywhere.

    They also brought in Accorsi because when they thought 'outside the box' we got Trestman and Emery and the fantastical results they brought. Feel free to add those two to the list of failures too--doesn't change how Sweaty Teddy and the McCaskeys aren't going anywhere.

    This is also why I brought up the Steelers. They put a guy in charge at the exact same title as Ted that knows nothing about football and even runs a side business for the Rooney family. They can do it without a football guy because the team's built well because they have had the most important position filled by a consistent rapist. Why can't the bears pair their next QB with a coach for 3-4 years like they did for consistency? Why can't the bears fix and prioitize the OLine like they did? Why did the bears only have one good 1st round pick in the past 5 years?

    That's on Pace and autonomy given to him. You want to lump in Ted because he signed off on Pace? Go nuts. Again, I want new ownership too--but if the McCaskeys/board/Ted all fucked off and let Pace do what he wanted because he was the football guy picked by the consultant football guy--what are they supposed to do differently?

    He's Buffalo's present General Manager. Good luck with that.

    I want a guy who takes Beane's approach with this team as Beane did in Buffalo: purge/trade anyone/anything of value from the prior regime for draft capital, strip this thing to the studs, find a coach that can lead men and process things as they happen in real-time then adjust and put it all together with a plan in mind.

    DONT hire a bad coach, then draft your QB, then fire the coach for a difficult system coach that your top QB pick can't figure out.
     
  14. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

    But Ted can go somewhere. And someone with an actual football brain can take over.

    Virginia once moved her own son aside....moving Phillips out isn't unrealistic.

    As for the Steelers....Colbert is running that show. He has for a while. And he's most definitely a football guy. It's not apples to apples because the Bears haven't found the guy that can run the show that successfully. And until they do....it hangs on the guy that's in charge.

    It's not lumping in Ted....below ownership he's the highest name on the board.

    He's been President 20 years......we've been to the playoffs 5 times during that span? With 3 wins?

    If GMs can be fired for not performing....why can't a President?

    Because it's not like this franchise was trucking along great and then Pace came and the wheels fell off.

    I agree.
     
  15. patg006 M.V.P. Bears

    Colbert doesn't have the same title Ted Phillips does. That's Art Rooney II. Who also oversees a tax/financial law firm and horse racing side businesses in Pittsburgh. That's apples to apples with Ted.

    Colbert is established at his position and knows what he's doing, no argument there. But his title is general manager. The bears CAN keep Teddy as president, like Art Rooney 2 while finding a football guy at GM. My argument is that if Phillips fucks off with football decisions (and like Rooney 2 with Colbert) as he seemingly has these past 5 years and is 'in title' only, the mediocrity can be fixed provided the right guy is found.

    Though if Kaplan's right and I'm wrong, you're not going to see me complain or lament Ted's departure.
     
  16. blang84 Legend Bears

    Hadn't really heard about him until you mentioned him, but he seems good.

    I keep hearing a lot of idiots saying we should hire Louis Riddick, who I don't dislike as an analyst, but has zero front office experience. The only thing I'll say is no one from the Patriots, since everyone who leaves that organization sucks in their new jobs.
     
  17. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

    It's not though because the trust the Rooney family has in Colbert makes the whole dynamic different.

    You can have a President that is hands off on football in that situation because the guy running the show...who's been in the organization since 2000....is good at what he does.

    The Rooney's have consistently proven they can put people in place to make good football decisions. That franchise's success since coming into the league is absolutely unquestioned.

    The same can't be said about the McCaskey's....which makes the President position all that more important. The McCaskey's need someone in that spot that knows the game and how things work.

    Name me one positive to Phillips being President....just one.

    It's proven that mediocrity can not be fixed with the current structure. They have not found consistent success with it. All we are getting is a rinse and repeat every few years with new names for the fans to blame.
     
  18. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

    His name is popping up a lot lately. And anyone can be mad at me for saying this but it's true....his skin color has a lot to do with it.

    I have no issue with minority hirings...would love to see more of them. But I have no desire to bring in a guy like Riddick. It's a feel good hiring and not one based on past success.

    He was director of Pro Personnel for the Eagles though.
     
  19. blang84 Legend Bears

    Ah, I stand corrected. But still, no thanks on Riddick.

    I want the best person for the role, even if that's a non-binary purple skinned person.
     
  20. BearsWillWin Drunk (Probably) Patreon Champion Manager Bears Blackhawks Cubs

    Definitely.
     

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