In the last game thread bww mentioned something that i'd been thinking about the week before, after the Titans game. Essentially he said this year is the worst Offense he'd ever seen. Now i don't mean to hold him to that cos our game threads are always heated and things get said that you don't always stand by, i know i've done that. But either way this is the kind of territory we're in now. So is this now the worst O-Line ever? Worst skills group ever? Worst overall Offense ever?
I think the fact that they are an arrogant, dull, unenergetic and happy to be underachieving group points that way.
Holy s***. That's a tough question. We've seen worse QB's. Not sure if we've seen a worse OL, but certainly several tied for that distinction. We've seen worse WR's / TE's. Maybe the worst set of RB's I've ever seen. But I've never seen an offense this utterly inept in all phases at all times. Yes, this is the worst I've seen overall in my lifetime. Scheme / playcalling play a big factor. The only identity this offense has is "bad". At least previous offenses came in trying to run, or knowing they might have a decent downfield shot in them at some point. This team just... sucks. That's their identity, that's what they do. Everybody I see defending Pace (outside of this forum, of course) says, "He's better than the last guy, he's built a good defense, etc". But let's give him full credit for engineering the worst Bears offense in 30 years. I'm looking forward to / not looking forward to someone pointing to a more inept offense. Because we've had so many bad ones...
I interpreted his point as being given the level of talent at the skills positions vs actual production. QB and o-line suck, but there's talent around, particularly at WR. Even so, I'm not sure I agree. To me this is FAR from the worst Bears offense we've seen. The worst in my memory is the 2004 Jonathan Quinn/Craig Krenzel team, but the late 90s teams with Wanny are right up there. Edgar Bennett, Rick Mirer, Steve Stenstrom, Ryan Wetnight, to name a few. No thanks. I'll take this 2020 piece of shit over that mountain pile of shit. Just zero talent at the skill positions, although I will say our o-line is worse now.
Some additional info on the 2004 Bears offense: 14.4 points per game, ranked 32nd out of 32. 238.5 yards per game, ranked 32nd of 32. 14.3 first downs per game, ranked 32nd of 32. 4.79 plays per drive, ranked 32nd of 32. (btw our avg starting field position was ranked 6 of 32, due to decent D and special teams) 137 pass yards per game, ranked 32nd of 32. 9 passing TDs for the entire season, ranked 32nd of 32. Yeah... there's no way we're worse than that, even now.
Worst OLine? Ehhh difficult. I struggle with this, but for now they're 1B. The worst I've ever seen? They'd have to contend with the end of Lovie/beginning of Trestman era (I forget the year) when the bears trotted out J'Marcus Webb, Frank Omiyale, converted a TE if I recall correctly named Lance Louis to RT then decided Kellen Davis should be on the field. The time where the Giants made Cutler forget what year it was in the 1st half of a prime time game then Phil Emery dropped a ton of $ on Jermon Bushrod (who also sucked). Really only 2 competent linemen then/now in Garza/Kreutz and Whitehair/Daniels. Now you make me have to dissect who could be worse between Louis, Omiyale, and Webb versus Leno, Coward, and Ifedi, and I don't want to... Skill wise? No. Partly because A--in 2020 and beyond, all athletes are getting better, stronger, faster, and smarter than ever before; for example Mitch Trubisky versus Cade McNown, both busts--but Mitch can do one thing right now and again. B--Allen Robinson is talented as fuck and is the best WR I've ever seen in a bears uniform (was born in 1988 but my parents video taped every bears game going back to the late 1970s and I will say easily and with confidence I'll take ARob over Gault, Berrian, Marshall, Moose, Alshon, Conway, Olsen, any pre-1980 player and whomever else you want to put in there.) So is Mooney. I believe Kmet can and will be. They have come a long way from Earl Bennett, Devin Aromashodu, Roy Williams, Rasheid Davis, Johnny Knox, Taquan Mizzel and Josh Bellamy. The bears aren't trying to convert guys like Devin Hester anymore...okay I lied. I hate when I see Cordarrelle Patterson on the offense taking targets away from talents 'because he's good in open space.' Worst overall offense? Ehhhh...that's so hard to call right now. I remember the Ron Turner/John Shoop specials to Jason McKie that you knew would only go 2 yards on 3rd and 7. Mike Martz pissed me off because he outright refused to use Olsen, even in the fucking slot and believed in 7 step drops when Orton/Jay didn't have time. I see the same stupid shit that doesn't work with Nagy. Worst QB? Hard to really gauge that. I just kind of have one category of ass, and yeah--Nick Foles and Mitch join that loooooong list. Not the VIP section though. That's reserved for well....don't feel like typing all of their names out. I'm going to stop now because I can feel my brain cells suffocating remembering how terrible these teams have been. These are the same people who defended Jerry Angelo. He built a good defense too. Did fuckall otherwise. Pace has found 2 OLinemen at least, a promising WR in Mooney. JA had Knox (who didn't know how to catch with his hands which is why his career was cut short), Olsen, and Berrian. I'll give him Benson too. Emery wins with Alshon and Kyle Long.
Why does everybody forget about my main man Marcus Robinson? He was dominant for not even playing a full season in 1999. I think his TD and yardage records for a single season were eventually broken by either Marshall or Alshon, but those guys played for a full season in a greater pass happy era with a far better QB.
As you said athletes today are bigger faster stronger than they were in the past, not to mention more skilled. But damn Marty Booker catching 100 balls in a John Schoop offense in the early 2000s? Marcus Robinson getting 1400 yards receiving in 1999? If only A-Rob could match that level of production.
I think this is indeed the worst offense I have ever seen from the Bears. The worst scheme/playbook ever anyway. When I look at the offensive skill group I see a lot of other teams doing more with less. Nagy has no idea how to design a scheme based on the strengths of his players. Yes the o line is bad but that should be the difference between having a good offense and and average offense. Not worst offense in the NFL. we should be expecting more out of this offense. Not hoping for anything at all.
The Bears offense sucks, but it's not the worst of all time because this is a franchise that specializes in shitty offense. We can't even say it's the worst scheme, because you guys have all triggered John Shoop nightmares for me. The man was so bad the fans would heckle him with the "SHOOOOOP" calls from the stands after yet another bubble screen goes nowhere. 4 years ago, during the draft, we all said the trade up that Pace was going all in on Trubsiky. One year later we hire Nagy and get Mack, which meant we would be hamstrung from doing more, and that Pace/Nagy/Trubs either succeeded together or didn't. We know the answer now, so the only thing left to do is to see what the ownership does. Given the shitty ownership, I am fully expecting *at least* Pace to stay. What's so odd is Mooney seems like a good pickup, Kmet from the little we've seen doesn't seem like garbage, A Rob is talented - there's some talent here, but none of it is working. In other years (like 2004) you could excuse it for a complete dearth of talent. It's a team full of nice guys. Nagy seems like a nice enough dude. Trubs too. I would love to see them succeed. There's just one problem, they aren't any good.
- The QB room is bad, but def not the worst we've seen. The 2004 group of Chad Hutchison, Craig Krenzel & Jonathan Quinn must be not just the worst in team history, but one of the worst all time groups league wide. So 2020 is better than that. - The WR room is def not the worst we've seen. I mean we have seen some utter dogshit. Just 3years ago it was comprised of Glass Legs, Stone Hands Bellamy & Dontrelle Inman. Horrific. As pat touched upon, gotta give an honourable mention to 2011 with Hester, Bennett & Stone Hands Williams. So 2020 is def better than that. - TE room has def been worse. Im no Jimmy Graham fan but still it isnt close. I could really deep dive this one but will settle for 2012 with Kellen Davis & Matt Speath, who's most noteworthy moment combined was getting whiffing a block that put the only pro bowler on the Offense on IR. *Note how im not even having to go back to the 90s to play this game. Anyway, between Graham & Kmet, its def better than that. - OL is an utter shitshow of course. Only Daniels hasnt been a complete turd. I wont repeat pat cos he covered it but this years group might only be a wash hahahachrist. - RB's? Maybe i over rate Monty & Cohen and if so i'll take this seriously and drop all the way back to the 90s. In '94 the Bears lead back got the ball nearly 300times and didnt even crack 900yards, thats fucking awful! Yep good ole Lewis Tillman. - Playcaller? As varder says, this is the team that proudly gave us the John Shoop Offense. And Ron Turdner. Fucking twice! I guess my conclusion to all that is 1- Why the fuck did i make this abortion of a thread. And 2- Looking at every position group and play caller, i cant say definitively that any are the absolute worst. WR & TE prob dont even crack the top8-10 in my lifetime. The only definitive conclusion i can draw is this Offense is definitively less than the sum of its parts.
Marshall is the best Bears receiver of our lifetimes. I know thats a little inconvenient in some ways cos he was a bit of a headcase, but its also true. I've always been a fan of ARob, but he hasn't really come that close to topping Marshall, either in single season numbers or generally over his time here. I do suspect you could narrow the numbers aspect of this debate a little if you looked at things like targets, cos Cutler did throw to Marshall a LOT. But still, Marshall was just more prolific. Yeah have to agree with all of this.
Well said, it sickens me to read this shit we tolerated year after year after year, but if you base an offense on level of skill and what you've achieved this has to be worse than that 04 team. The talent level on that team was a lot less than this one so basically they started on a lower floor to reach a comparable level as this current team. While Pace garners rightful criticism especially when it comes to that abortion that is the offensive line, the blame for this shitshow should fall squarely on Nagy's shoulders as he's done less with more.
