Looking Forward to the 2019 AFC North

Trent will cost some serious draft capital

 

Someone's lying.

 

I think that the Redskins will trade him to the highest bidder

 

A midseason trade for a 31 year old OT that has a significant injury history? Damn, I hope that's a false rumor. Please don't make a mistake on top of a mistake Mr. Dorsey.

This next next draft is going to have plenty of O-line talent.

 

Baker looks too hurried. the game hasn't slowed down for him. He's been unlucky in that his tipped balls are falling into the hands of the opponent, but his placement and his timing with his guys is off.

Odell is an elite WR but hasn't looked it on a number of plays. I have to wonder if Baker is firing just a click too soon, before OBJ has turned, and thus he's not finding the ball quickly enough to make the play, or make any adjustment to the ball. OBJ has made a couple of remarkable catches on deep balls where he has the chance to track and position himself, so I gotta think the shorter quick outs and such are just a timing thing.

I also heard about the Williams rumor. I think it can definitely help, but at what price, how ready to play is he?

 

The Trent Williams rumor is an interesting one - mostly because it keeps coming up. Let's be very clear about one thing: Trent Williams needs the Browns more than the Browns need him.

@TopDawg's point is right on... the guy is 31 years old and hasn't played a full 16 games since 2013 due to injuries. His contract is expiring after 2020 and he's already committed to not playing for Washington. They have zero leverage. I can't see this team giving up anything more than a third round pick (since we have two) and maybe a role player.

When Freddie dials up the Peyton Manning playbook and asks Baker to drop five- or seven-yards into the pocket and survey the whole field, he's predictably struggling. When Freddie is dialing up his 2018 playbook and having Mayfield either in the shotgun or throwing in rhythm, he looks like this 2018 self. Why are we trying to change a leopard's spots?

 

And the only reason we're trading for him is because I don't trust John Dorsey's evaluation of offensive linemen.

 

Guys, I need some help in understanding Dawg Pound logic.

Hue Jackson got tarred and feathered in here, and elsewhere, on a daily basis. I get the 1-31 argument. I wasn't happy about that either. But when it was pointed out that stripping the roster down to the bare studs to accumulate draft assets and the resulting losses were expected and part of the overall plan, the arguments shifted to (paraphrased);

• Hue's a shitty play caller. He has no business being a Head Coach who calls plays (2017).
• Hue can't grasp clock management.
• There's no discipline or accountability on this team.
• His pressers all say the same thing - "We're working to get better".

Yet Freddie Kitchens gets a free pass despite having better talent. Yes, he did a good job last year as OC against mediocre to bad teams. But the same things Browns fans (in general) roasted Hue Jackson for back then are still present. I'm not suggesting that Goober should be fired. Jackson deserved it based on the turmoil within his own staff alone. But, why are we not holding Freddie's feet to the same fire?

 

I think (at least in my opinion) and in no particular order:

A) He's getting a pass so far since it's his first year and he's a rookie HC and they just missed a 0.500 record last year.
B) What he did with Mayfield last season leads our fans to think we have our "savior" QB and the QB struggles this year are some other problem with the team
C) From previous point (B)....Our OL (thanks Mr. Dorsey) - 'nuff said
D) I think most can agree this team was over-hyped as AFCN favorites as well as pretty good Vegas odds to make the Super Bowl
E) Hue threw everyone else under the bus and took no responsibility for the team's troubles
F) Dorsey just added some pieces to the team this season and it'll take time to gel (and still need a few more)

That's just a few off the top of my head. I can probably give you more once I think about it for a bit.

 

Kitchens is the guy who succeeded Jackson. Therefore, he's automatically more likable, and gets the credit that that confers. By yes, this season has been very Hue-esque.

 

Nobody cut Jackson any slack in his first year. And being the Raiders' HC for 1 year hardly qualifies him as a seasoned, veteran HC.

I repeat - what he did with Mayfield last year was only successful against the mediocre to bad teams. Teams that had little to no film on Kitchens/Mayfield with which to use in their defensive game plans.

No argument there. But why are we not bitching about Dorsey?

The pre-season hype and actual on field performance are mutually exclusive.

That's debatable. And, it really didn't fully manifest itself until last year. Force Freddie to hand over play calling to a weasel like Todd Haley and see what happens.

Even more reason to hold Freddie to the same standard. He has more talent on this roster than Jackson ever did. Yet he's making the same dumb play calls, mismanaging the clock and keeps promising he will do a better job. He preaches consistency, yet remains inconsistent with play calling and clock management (unless you consider consistently bad as the standard.)

Look, I like Freddie. He has some good old boy charm to him that draws people in. But the fact remains, on Sundays, he makes the same mistakes that Jackson made and it appears to me that those mistakes are now acceptable.

 

I get your points @Lyman . I'm not arguing against you. I'm just thinking of why people in general would give him a pass. I'm none too pleased with him myself.

Not that it's well thought out or rational, I think (me, myself and only I on this) I am willing to give the benefit of turning my head a bit just because I'm tired of the whole coaching carousel this team has endured for nearly 2 decades. I'm just worn down and don't have much more to give as I continue to just pray that these guys are "it."

 

I think we should a bit more just because of the OL. He doesn't get a pass just because of his draft and OBJ and a few other players. I feel like he ignored the OL just because of Freddy's play calling and Mayfield's performance last year. That sure as hell, to me, didn't mean the OL didn't need some better players.

 

Logic? Around here? That's madness...

For starters... I don't know that "free pass" is fair to say. While maybe he hasn't been questioned or scrutinized all that intensely, there's a big difference between 2-4 where two of those loses were to last year's Super Bowl representative from the NFC and this year's Super Bowl favorite from the NFC by 20-13 and 32-28, respectively, and 0-6 where your margin of difference in games was 10.5 points.

Something Hue Jackson did - that Freddie hasn't - is hype the team. We look back at 2016 as a rebuild, sure, but in the moment we had just signed Robert Griffin III after a workout that "shook the ground" beneath Hue's feet. Hue was a widely-respected "QB guru" who could work his magic and the pre-season looked promising. Hue personally said "pass" on Carson Wentz, despite being the only one there at his Pro Day and personally putting him through QB drills. We drafted a flashy wide receiver and were returning a ton of 2015 players (14 of 22 starters were in place in 2015).

The biggest question may be this: how did you feel about each hire?

I was against Hue Jackson from the start, so I admittedly was much more critical. I don't think it was until towards the end of the season when I thought it was time to part ways (would have to go back and see when the #fireHue started) based on a 1-15 record.

If the Browns don't win the division -- especially this year, I think it's completely fair to pin that on Freddie and start holding his feet to the fire. I do think it's a little early to start mulling about replacing him. Yes, the first six games haven't gone the way most expected. The losses to the Titans and 49ers were especially bad. How they handle the next 10 games will go a long way in his evaluation. They have the talent to go 10-0 or 9-1 at worst. If they don't get to nine wins, sure... get Lincoln Riley on the horn.

 

Let me make this crystal clear. I am in no way, shape or form advocating that Freddie be fired. That would be foolhardy at this point in time. But . . .

• There's no question the Titans loss was due to the team being unprepared and undisciplined. That's on Freddie.
• The Rams loss was due to irrational play calling. That's on Freddie.
• The Seahawks loss was due to bad play calling - and - horrible clock management. Both of those are on Freddie.

That puts us at 5-1-0 with a 1 game lead in the AFCN. With a 1 game lead and our remaining schedule, the AFCN title would have been a virtual lock. Instead, we're 2 games back and tied with the Steelers. There's no way in hell the Ravens will win the AFCN with their remaining schedule. However, the Steelers actually have an easier schedule than us to finish the season.

 

Dorsey's mishandling of the O-line is worthy of a thread by itself.

 

Honestly?

I don't want to be negative and I didn't want to rekindle the Sashi Wars.

 

And on pace for 13-3 easily.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Clock management was questionable, but we actually came out ahead somehow on that one. I actually disagree on the play-calling, I thought Freddie did well.

I think the biggest issue - besides blatantly wrong officiating - was four turnovers and a blocked punt against a very good opponent. Nick Chubb's fumble - first of his career - was a huge surprise. Two of Baker's three interceptions were tipped passes off receivers' hands - I put that on the players. His third was a timing throw that never made it because the two receivers took each other out of the equation - I put that on the players.

There's plenty of blame to go around, but it's not just one thing and that's a big reason for not calling out just Freddie. I think, talent-wise, you could make a case we've got some issues. Player-personnel wise, issues. Coordinators (Wilks' defense has had two huge duds after four very good showings), head coach, quarterback -- everyone has skin in the game.

That's also why it's not an easy fix.

 

Note: Copy/pasted from another thread on the same topic.

There was a sequence in the Seahawks game that pretty well sums up Goober's performance as a Head Coach. Setting the stage:

• About 1 minute, 40 seconds remaining in the 2nd quarter.
• The Seahawks had just scored 9 unanswered points cutting the Browns lead to 20-12.
• The Browns have the ball 1st and 10 on Seattle's 12 yard line with all 3 time outs available.
• The Browns' running game had been effective all game (Chubb ended up with 124 yards rushing).

So, what does Freddie call? A pass play where Mayfield launches an Exorcet missile at a wide receiver that comes in too hot, bounces off the receiver's hands and gets intercepted by Seattle. The Seahawks promptly march 80 yards for a TD (missed the extra point) and instead of going into the half with a 23-12 lead, more likely a 27-12 lead, it's now 20-18 and Seattle receives the 2nd half kickoff.

When asked in a post game presser why he didn't just run the ball, eat the remaining time off the clock and go into the half with a two possession lead, Freddie answered,

"I thought we could score quickly, use our 3 time outs on defense, get the ball back and score again."​

Really? Russell Wilson owned the Browns' defense in the 2nd quarter. The Browns lost by 4 points.​

When the Browns had the ball 1st and 10 on Seattle's 12 yard line, Freddie went to the hurry up offense and snapped the ball with 22 seconds left on the play clock. Seattle intercepted the ball, marched directly down the field and scored . . . With 22 seconds remaining on the game clock.​

ALL teams are dealing with horrific officiating this year. The good ones don't add fuel to the fire with shitty play calling, bad clock management and being unprepared.

And . . . Even with the turnovers, we only lost by 4 points and there was, at least, a 9 point swing in Seattle's favor just on that 1 series alone !

 

So f'n true.