NFL - Random Opinions

Nobody above the Giants need a QB, so teams that want their pick of the QBs need to get to at least 5.

 

There are 4 spots to get to...unless you want to take the chance and wait it out (which never happens), you need to get as high as the first team willing to trade is. What good does trading into the 5th spot, when there are 4 other spots to trade into.

The thing is, I believe the Cardinals are looking to trade out of #1..you have to pay for it, but if you like one QB well above the others, then that's the spot to aim for. Otherwise, someone else may trade into the spot and take your guy.

As for QBs in this draft willing to trade for, my personal opinion is there is one... Haskins

However, once Haskins is gone, if you like one of the other guys well enough to take in the first, you will probably need to trade up to get him also...History proves as much.

 

Was Mitch worth trading up one spot for? To me Haskins is a better prospect than he was and they are both one year wonders.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how people react if Kyler Murray is drafted before Dwayne Haskins.

 

I don't think it will shock anyone in the media. They have it about 50/50 on which one is the top choice. It will boil down to what a team wants from their offense
They are two very different QBs, imho.

Honestly, with as little experience as they have, they haven't even shown who they are yet...it's going to take a year or two for either to find their identity.

 

I wonder why Haskins is dropping in QB rankings and Murray is ahead of him. They are still 1 & 2, neck and neck, but I don't see why an NFL team would want a shorter QB with a lesser completion % over a larger, more statistically accurate passer, unless they want a running QB who will get killed out there, lol.

IMO, Haskins is a pure passer, Murray is dangerous because of his feet.

 

I agree with BWW. No one is arguing that the Giants don’t need a QB. But this isn’t a one-year fix. The Giants are in rebuild mode and it’s going to tAke a few years of good drafting. Stockpile picks, take the best players available (they have needs across the board). This isn’t a great year for QBs, so don’t try to force a square peg into a round hole.

You of all people should know better than to take a QB just because you “need” one.

 

I should have been more specific. The media and most talking heads will follow the usual routines when it comes to these two quarterbacks.

I'm more interested in seeing the reaction here if it does shake out that way. I don't believe I have read one poster with a very high opinion on Kyler.

I believe Murray is one of the most natural passers to enter the draft in the last decade and his feet are just an added bonus. An unbelievably deadly bonus, but not the sum of his game.

 

I think a lot of people, not just here, but all throughout have knocked Kyler because of his size, not his talents. That's how I seem to interpret things in the beginning anyway, but the pendulum is swinging the other way.

Bottom line to me, I don't think you could go wrong with either, or...

It is interesting/fun to discuss tho.

 

I think he has a natural and very short release, which gets the ball out lightning quick and will help his game. But I also see him move a lot more, most likely to find passing lanes, and I see more balls float on him. It might be mechanics that you can clean up, but I think it's caused by his quick snap release above his shoulder. He doesn't use much follow through because of his snap of the ball. I think that will be hard to coach out of him.

 

I don't disagree with that. I'm not overly biased by his size. When comparing the two though, I do see the ability to stand tall in the pocket easier for Haskins. I think that ability gives him an advantage of getting the ball out faster on timing routes, because he doesn't necessarily have to adjust for a passing lane as often.

 

Not a lot we agree on here, lol.

I see zero flaws in his mechanics. His throwing motion is naturally effortless. He doesn't need to develop torque to get the ball in motion quickly and can throw from any platform.

I don't see a player struggling to find passing lanes, but I do see a player that moves to force the defense to react to his movement. Being able to gash defenses with his feet gives him the ability to make zone coverages shift by simply moving from within the pocket. They react to his movement and it creates windows. Plus, active feet in a quarterback that has the ability to scramble is no surprise in itself.

His touch to arc and change of trajectory ability is at an extremely high level. His ability to take something off, add something to or recreate placement through velocity is one of his major strengths.

He displays solid anticipation accuracy and ball placement, with the latter being another one of his premiere strengths. He has the ability to find spots to put the ball where the defense cannot get to it and do it with accuracy and proper velocity. That's a combination of throwing skill as a mental ability that comes from situational awareness.

His best NFL comp is probably Russell Wilson, but I see a more polished passer coming out of college and he has a different level of athleticism than Russell possesses.

 

At the end of the day, I think both have a better than average chance of being successful in the NFL. I think both belong in the talk for top ten picks, but I feel Haskins deserves talk for #1 overall, where I think Murray will take the right coach to get the most out of him. Either way, I expect both to be gone in the top 5 simply because they are by far the top tier in this draft class and that's what happens in the NFL draft.

I'm not as down on Drew Lock and Daniel Jones as some others. Many are saying they are not first round grades, but will still get drafted there because they are QBs...I actually think they are both low first round grades and both have a chance of being successful in the NFL. I'm usually kind of hard on QBs, so for me this is new territory.

This is a very unique draft I think.

I only see two super studs in Bosa and Williams, while many have Allen above both of them..

I see tiers of players like this:

Top tier 1: Nick Bosa, Quinnen Williams
tier 2: Dwayne Haskins, Josh Allen, Ed Oliver, Devin White, Montez Sweat, Greedy Williams, Christian Williams, Deionte Thompson
tier 3: Kyler Murray, Rashan Gary, Byron Murphy, Deandre Baker, D.K. Metcalf, Jonah Williams, Clelin Ferrell,
tier 4: Devin Bush, Dre'Mont Jones, N'Keal Harry, A.J. Brown, Drew Lock, T.J. Hockinson, Noah Fant, Jawaan Taylor, Amani Oruwariye, Mack Wilson, Rock Ya-Sin
tier 5: Parris Campbell, Brian Burns, Hakeem Butler, Zach Allen, Juan Thornhill, Daniel Jones, Marquise Brown, Jachai Polite, Jeffery Simmons, Josh Jacobs, J.J. Arcega-Whiteside, Andre Dillard, Garrett Bradbury

I think there is a distinct difference between tier one and tier two. There is less of a difference between tier 2 and tier 3, a distinct difference between tier 3 and tier 4 and the difference between 4 and 5 is fairly minor.

That's a lot of players, that I think have a better than average chance of being first round picks...and the next tier of players isn't that much difference that that tier 5 group.

I think we would have gotten a pretty damn good player at #17, not Odell Beckham Jr. good, but they would have been pro caliber imho. I think there are quite a few safe players in this draft, not very many projected All Pros, but contributing starters.

The second round this year will be filled with starters also, imho.

Years past, My tiers were much smaller...and they were usually much more distinct. Above I have all first round grades, I don't think I have ever in the past had more than about 20-32 guys with first round grades. The 2nd round grades in my estimation will go well into the 3rd round.

This is a very deep draft, just baron of super studs. I usually see 5-6 super studs, then a major drop off of really good players, then a major drop off to possible starters. This year I see two studs and then some really good players, then a lot more good players that I think will be starters, THEN the possible starters in groups 6-8.

 

I think this is where we disagree the most. I think he throws late too often and hits the back shoulder or makes his receivers leave their feet to often.

I think he reacts to the defense way more than pre-snap reads dictating what he should do.

I do think his reaction to defense on the fly is superior to every QB in this draft, but I think Haskins pre-snap reads are much better than all the other QBs as well. I prefer a QB that reads the blitz pre-snap, than reacting post snap...that's just me and that's what I see.

That pre-snap ability is something that can be learned though. With as little experience as he has, it isn't even surprising that it lacks somewhat. What does surprise is Haskins has it with a similar experience issue. I think Haskins is ahead of the curve.

 

I agree on Haskins ability to make the reads. He is ahead of where most people expected him to be.

I disagree on Murray's ability to make the reads and his delivery not being on time.

I personally have Murray several points above Haskins overall, but I do believe that Dwayne is a solid prospect in his own right and if the Giants were to move up and take Haskins over Murray I would understand it.

There is a discussion to be had on whether or not Murray will need an offense tailored around his skill set, but that is true of almost any prospect coming out. At the end of the day it's all about whether or not you can get the ball in the hands of your play-makers, convert on 3rd down and keep the ball out of the other team's hands. Kyler can do all 3 at a high level.

Lock is probably going to score out similar to Josh Allen so when you mention tiers and where players fall, right now I see three tiers at the top of the quarterbacks with all 3 having their own tier. After that it's a bit more of a muddled mess...

I mentioned this in another thread and I agree with most of what you say in that post.

There will be a lot of quality starters that come out of this draft class and there will be players going in the 4th round that would have been, at the least, late second round prospects in some of the most recent draft classes, IMO.

 

I've watched a ton of videos of Murray....I'm not seeing any mechanical problems.

 

Probably not. I'm still not convinced they needed to make the trade in order to draft him. And that's always bothered me.

But again....I think this is being looked at wrong.

There's an assumption being made that the Giants HAVE to make a trade in order to acquire Haskins or Murray if they target them as their guy.

Cardinals go first and they are probably the most mysterious team at this time. Are they gonna trade Rosen or are they gonna draft someone to protect him? After that you have 49ers, Raiders, Jets, and Bucs. As it stands....it's very unlikely any of these teams are drafting a QB. Barring trades of their own....those teams are likely all drafting defense.

There's a small chance the Giants would have their choice of either QB at #6. There's an even bigger chance Haskins is sitting there....no trade needed.

I'm not arguing they need a QB or arguing who they should take. I think it would insanely silly and stupid to trade a bunch of picks to move up to nab a guy that you might not need a trade in order to draft.

 

I believe Murray is a solid prospect as well, this isn't an argument against drafting Murray. I have him rated higher than any QB the past 5 seasons not named Baker Mayfield or Dwayne Haskins...and I also would understand if he were drafted above Haskins. From my evaluation, I have Haskins above him on another level.

 

I absolutely love reading this stuff !!!

It gives me multiple viewpoints on a single topic !!!

 

I don't think that is going to be the case this season.

The Jets are already on record stating they have been contacted about the #3 pick. The Broncos, Bengals, Jaguars, Dolphins and Redskins were the teams listed. Up until the start of free agency, all 5 of those teams would have been looking at quarterback in that move up (Cincy hiring a new head coach leans towards new regime). Now, Jacksonville is likely to take a passer later in the draft and I believe the Redskins are the most likely landing spot for Bortles. With Flacco going to Denver the pressure is off for the move up. That leaves the Dolphins and Bengals as serious competition for a move up.

If we're looking at only two quarterbacks as being potential top 3 picks, that closes the window some on the Giants being able to sit and wait for an either/or at #6, specifically because the price tag for either 3 or 5 may be significantly less if Arizona trades out of #1.

Some scenarios I see as possible right now -

• The Cardinals trade out to New York
• The Cardinals draft Murray and Rosen goes to New York for the #6
• The Jets trade out to NYG/CIN/MIA
• The Buccaneers trade out to CIN or MIA
• Jacksonville still takes a quarterback at #7 if NYG stands and takes the first quarterback in the draft at #6
• Drew Lock moves into top 10 consideration and 3 trades happen above #7

Ultimately, quarterbacks are driven up boards in every class and even though a lot of analysts will suggest that teams will wait until 2020 there are going to be GMs in that top 16 that view two or 3 passers as top 10 or top 5 commodities in this class. Teams will jockey for position and the price tag will be driven up.

Unless it's simply a horrible class of arms (Geno and E.J. bad) there will always be teams willing to move up forcing teams that would prefer to sit and draft into making hard decisions.