Looking forward to 2019, Browns Free Agency/Trades

I never said there isn't a "fair deal". I simply said I wouldn't make this deal.

 

And others that you don't like, so you automatically give everyone of their posts no thought at all, you simply dismiss it as nonsense.

We like talking football...it gives us a reason to do just that...I think @Tim appreciates we are talking football as it helps his website. Ignoring everything reported isn't fun, it isn't anything.

"Is Beckham getting traded for peanuts? Not a chance."

There are differing opinions on what construes "peanuts" here, so it's a valid conversation. There are at least two on here that think that's TOO MUCH to pay for him.

That takes us back to "What is Odell Beckham Jr's trade value"?

We must start there...

You really have a thought process that a player that is at worst, in the top 5 at his position can simply be drafted in the second round? THAT is not a very good argument. At 28, a great o-lineman has a typical career barring injuries of around 34-35 years old... so, Zeitler isn't even on his last contract, even though he has 3 years left on his deal.

Kevin Zeitler is the BIG PIECE in this trade scenario, I think you are taking HIS value too lightly.

He isn't worthless, I never said he was worthless, I said we are looking to upgrade him. In reality, he averages 4.5 sacks per year, that isn't worthless, but I also don't think he is a player that doesn't need upgraded. For some teams HE would be an upgrade. Again, I haven't even thought about the Giants roster and where these players fit into it. I was reacting to the rumor, not putting a deal together from my own mind.

Just more pieces to the trade...

Would you draft a guard in the first round if you were certain he was going to be in the top 5 of his position? Of course, because it happens every year... Zeitler IS in the top 5 of his position, he is only 28 years old, so his value is a first round pick.

I would put a guy that averages 4.5 sacks at around a 3rd round pick...so #49, #120 and a 3rd round pick would actually equal a high first rounder.

This trade rumor would have a trade value of two first round picks going to the Giants for Beckham.

Personally, I think that is what Beckham's trade value is.

 

That's why I asked the question, what is Beckham's trade value.

We really can't have a fair conversation about this until we agree on that value.

 

Three-team trade?

ARI gets: Kevin Zeitler, OG; #17 overall (CLE); #37 overall (NYG)

CLE gets: Odell Beckham Jr., WR; #33 overall (ARI), #108 overall (NYG)

NYG gets: Josh Rosen, QB; Emmanuel Ogbah, DE

 

I don’t think the Giants would be happy unless they got a first rd plus trading away OJB

 

Not enough value for the Giants, imho... Of course, I have a lower value of Rosen than others...I think the Browns and Cardinals would jump all over that deal though.

 

Agreed that the value for NYG would be in how Gettleman had Rosen ranked against Dwayne Haskins or Drew Lock (the likely available guys at #6 if they stay put). How they can pretend to be okay with Eli for another season is beyond me.

The folks who're talking about Arizona maybe getting a late two or early three back for Rosen is insane. This is a guy who played with/for a terrible team last season, was #10 overall pick, and showed flashes of being able to develop into a very nice starting QB.

This also would assume the Cardinals are on board for getting Kyler Murray which, frankly, I don't believe they are.

 

I can't and won't discuss potential players currently on the Browns' roster that I would offer up in a trade for the same reason you refrained from discussing it last year during the GMO. I can say this . . . Kevin Zeitler would not be a part of any trade package.

 

In this rumor, Zeitler is the first round value, instead of a pick

 

Fair enough, I was simply asking your opinion of what Beckham trade value should be worth in draft picks.

 

They would want the 17 and Zeitler

 

Remember this . . .

Austin Corbitt was one of the reasons they couldn't leave Joel Bitonio at LT last season. And one short year later he's ready to step in and replace Kevin Zeitler?

 

Not an OBJ fan, and I live in the NY market, so I get to hear/see his stories regularly, which I suspect is the case with those in the Cleveland market as it pertains to AB.

No Thanks!

We've got a brand new QB, who has to be priority #1. IMO one of our team's greatest strengths is the O line, particularly the Interior line, and teams who do well perennially, have just that. Keeping your QB clean allows him to make good recievers look great, and prolongs the QB's career. If I'm Dorsey I would trade Corbett if he has value, but not mess with the leagues best interior line, for the sake of a wildly talented, but demonstrably murcurial WR, who has repeatedly shown a lack of "team first" attitude.

We have begun a journey to contention on the strength of young, hungry talent, promoted a new, young head coach to lead them, and a true diva WR threatens the dynamic, IMO. Freddie is going to struggle, no doubt in some regards in his first year as HC, but burdening him with the head case that is Odell, is tossing a hand grenade into the huddle.

I'd like to see us lock into that O line, hope Robinson continues to develope, but I'm not a fan of rolling the dice on Beckham actually being the guy he was 3 years ago, while giving up the certainty of the interior line.

 

They stated two first last season, I don’t think they have changed their stance. M

 

Then the problem is a valuation one.

Unless the receiver is named Julio Jones, A.J. Green, Michael Thomas, or DeAndre Hopkins, they're not getting an R1 pick in my world.

 

NYG are in a world of hurt. If they keep playing Eli, and I think they will, they have to protect him better. If they are offering OBJ then they are telling everyone they value that protection above the high flying circus act that is OBJ.
Others are arguing the opposite for Cleveland: the protection is replaceable, but the elite WR makes us better. I simply disagree, in the case of OBJ.

I want Baker to be comfortable in the pocket, stay healthy, and play for a long time. OBJ doesn't answer that bell. Like Greg Williams said last year when we didn't draft Chubb "he can't cover".

I also am very wary of OBJ's impact on our young squad, from a "team" perspective. I don't want to add players who have shown to be too "me first" in their attitude. I also don't really see the "huge" gap in WR that justifies such a move, at such a cost.

 

Don't presume. There are very few posters whose posts I automatically dismiss as nonsensical. At least one generally resides on the Browns' board. I assure you, I have no posters "Ignored", and read every post I come across. There are plenty of posters who talk complete nonsense, but I give their postings the chance to be anything but, every time. It's still usually nonsense, but I always give it a chance.

I also keep all profile information hidden (at work - don't want profile pictures being a problem), so I don't know who's saying something unless I bother quoting it. It's something I think more people would benefit from trying, in general.

There's fairness to that. I don't think discussing entirely unfounded rumors is fun or worthwhile, but it doesn't mean others shouldn't. I hear you.

There can be differing opinions. I think they're objectively wrong.

Interior linemen are simply not valued in the way that receivers are. Take Beckham out of this, and supplant a QB. The conversation is then, "We're trading a top 5 OL for a top 5 QB", and now it sounds absolutely ridiculous.

Zeitler is good. He's also expensive. If the Giants are out to rebuild, and move on from a young, top talent, then why wouldn't they demand more draft capital to renew their roster, rather than adding an interior OL on a $10+ mil contract? Teams draft future star interior OL in the second round all the time. Zeitler was supposedly a second rounder before being picked #27 overall.

The Giants would be smart to wait and see what Brown commands in trade. That will reinforce the idea that OBJ is worth more, and is worth paying for.

 

Something to consider.
We don't see or hear of teams lining up to pursue any of the "top level" offensive players this year, and we saw Des go down in flames last year too.

Has the NFL either as a group or individually as teams started to look at "troubled" offensive stars with a lot more caution?

Does the loosening of rules that benefit the O, make teams consider that second tier O weapons can benefit the team concept beyond what a "super star" big contract guy can?

Does this pass happy league make that a reasonable strategy?

Defense has risen again, in spite of the rules, and Mack was the BIG signing last year. Does that indicate a shift in how teams evaluate who actually are the true "impact players" now.

It seems like guys who create issues with their teams (justified or not) are finding it difficult to find a market.

Thoughts........

 

As long as owners have a say in what happens there will be stupid signings and trades for moronic players.