I remember discussing this possibility earlier in the previous season and i still think with what has been reported that you guys got a good deal. The nfl is no place for a moral compass. if the goal is winning then Hunt helps, he is a very good back and at worst you will get value from him simply by owning where he goes in a year or so. Honestly, other than the PR hit, its a pretty big win. The PR issue is of course big, but i dont for a second think hunt is one of the very few or even in the minority of people in that league who have committed such crimes- he will be accepted back to the locker room and after a good season most people will forget, just like they forget about pretty much all other things- many of which are far more impactful to them etc. 2k
It's not about PR, it's about setting back progress towards domestic violence. I don't doubt he will be accepted into the locker room. I just have a hard time understanding how winning an extra football game is worth THAT in a society that we are always taking one step forward, then two steps back in all kinds of societal issues. This is no different an issue than racial or LGBT issues plaguing the US. Violence against women plagues the country, giving a man a job 3 months after PROOF of his violent nature was shown to the world befuddles me. I really wish it were not MY team that gave him an avenue to be back in the public eye. Plain and simple. The next time an athlete is caught in a situation like this, his subconscious COULD have said...STOP...remember how it ruined Kareem Hunt's career?..now, there might not even be a voice of dissension present, because the consequences are such that society brushes it aside as long as you have a talent that helps a sports team win a game. Sorry, that's my personal view..
Irish, I completely understand and respect your view on this. In fact, I somewhat share them. But, this country (and our society) was built on the backs of men and women who were given second chances.
second chances... Kareem Hunt was involved in 3 separate acts of violence (that we know of). It took a video of one of them to actually get him suspended. His life was filled with violence and drugs, I'm not saying it was his fault, because of his upbringing. However, I think we could do more for society as a whole martyring these athletes instead of giving second and third chances, so that one of the 32 teams has extra ammo to win a game. Again, I'm not saying to push them to a secluded island and every other year detonate a nuke...my goodness, the major majority of society acts as if one of these athletes are not allowed to play football in the NFL it is a death sentence. THEY are responsible for their lives, THEY can make themselves better citizens and human beings..it would just be in a different profession than a game. They were given a free education during this same career, use it to better society if you are truly sorry for your actions. I am just as bad... I refuse to take this moment of great feeling about the Browns that I have suffered with for the last two decades and not support them because of this decision. I will still buy their fan wear and still go to training camp. I will most likely quietly be happy when/if he scores a TD to help them win... but I am also a major asshole, because I am also quietly hoping he pulls his hamstring and fades into mediocrity...well I guess not so quietly any more, but I just can't see giving a man with a history of violence a "second chance". The only reason it was a "second chance" is because he was never punished for the other incidents. So, now, since he was never punished, they are lumping ALL INCIDENTS into one punishment and it's going to be his "second chance". He obviously didn't learn from past mistakes...maybe if he is ACTUALLY punished instead of given second chance(s) he would actually change. Lip service about how sorry he is says to me much less than actual actions.
Yes. Second chances. You seem to grasp the idea that Kareem may be the product of the environment in which he grew up. You and I were extremely fortunate NOT to have to grow up in that type of family so I'm suggesting we really can't relate to it. He was given his first chance to change how he leads his life by the Chiefs and he blew it. Now, he has his second chance.
It would seem like a no-brainer that a person who assaults a woman would be permanently banned from playing in the NFL. But since the higher ups and the 'powers that be' have reduced morals and can only relate to money and winning, everything under the sun seems to be over-looked or declared a second chance. Its really true that you cant legislate morality and that, in my opinion, its not obtainable without a complete change of 'heart'. Until the 'powers that be' have this elusive 'change of heart' we are going to see criminals and the likes given opportunity to make millions in a business where others make billions.
It's all up to Hunt from here. He has no margin for error....As far as acceptance, Hunt won't have any problem with a new locker room at all. ESPN's Adam Shefter was reporting yesterday that Kareem was one of the most popular guys with the Chiefs. People like him and gravitate too him. Which is the same thing I've heard of his Toledo days.. He's very good friends with Travis Kelce and several other core leaders of that KC team, FWIW... I read where he's currently in alcohol counseling...Hopefully that means he's eliminating it completely. It certainly hasn't done him any favors.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the "higher ups" or their morals. It has everything to do with the cultures in which kids (of all colors) grow up. They're surrounded by this type of behavior while they're still impressionable and mistakenly believe that's the way the rest of the world is.
...and without consequence, they will not change. What I can say, he was "rescued" from this environment because of football. The elements around him could/should have educated him that life with drugs and violence ISN'T the norm and in order to succeed in environment he is currently in, it will not be tolerated. RULES are what dictates change, not second chances. Second chances within that environment, absolutely. If a kid grows up in that environment and doesn't understand and then is arrested for drugs/violence. Hell yes, he learned the consequences and should be given a second chance in society. Once he leaves that environment and learns how to live in the new environment, his past should not be a crutch to allow for chances to correct behavior, imho. I am convinced, if these kids were held to the ultimate accountability in college and the pros, the incidents would lesson and everyone would benefit. Our society of tolerance nullifies change. Maybe he has learned from this...maybe he is laughing with his buddies in Ohio that all he got was a slap on the wrist and it happens again, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years from now. I still am not happy that MY team is the one that did it.
If he has three reported instances then it sounds like he has a problem, and sooner or later he will do it again.
Which is still over-looked and turned a blind eye too, in the name of winning/money. If cultures and environment and the way I grew up are my excuses, then 'UEREKA", I have an excuse. As I grew older and more educated and suffered the consequences of wrong doing, I LEARNED, there is a right way and a wrong way, there really is no excuses. I came from a pretty lousy background and grew up a drug addict, severe alcoholic. I no longer use my background or culture as an excuse, but can see how it was an influence in the worst way. Through discipline and education and the practice of faith, ive learned that no matter what, I can change for the better. On the other hand, if someone offered me a second chance, id honestly, grab it in a heartbeat... its just natures way, in my opinion. I just wonder if these problem athletes are offered a second chance out of correcting and influencing them in a positive light or if its just because the 'higherups' see dollar signs. Evil begets evil and until the business men behind the product become clean, we are going to deal with and see these problem type young men/athletes over and over again. Thanks for reading.
What you are discussing goes way beyond the NFL trying to make money. This is a societal problem that manifests itself in every walk of life. If some believe that NFL policies can fix society, then I wish you good luck.
Here's where it gets tricky... He does have a problem, he has admitted to said problem and is seeking help with his problem with both alcohol and anger. So, he IS doing what a member of society should do to make themselves a better citizen to society. I am not taking that away from him. My questions lie in the realm of the "PRIVILEGE" of playing a high profile publicized game, and whether he should be able to continue to be in that high profile position. We hear speak of privilege all the time, but privileges are revoked when you cannot follow rules. The question comes in the form of fairness. If you don't have talent to challenge for a starters role, the privilege is revoked indefinitely, if you are a starter caliber player, first offense is 6 games. My personal opinion is that the implementation of zero tolerance for SPECIFIC things, like domestic violence, would curtail future incidents with these issues. KNOWING they would be thrown out of the league might have prevented many of the issues we have been discussing these past few years... Adrian Peterson, Ray Rice and now Hunt, all preventable if these players KNOW they are going to lose their current livelihood by the decision they made in that instant. Hunt's, to me, was worse than many. Ray Rice's was more violent, but it was in a moment of passion as told by the footage. Egregious in nature and unforgivable, imho, but he had little time to think about what he was doing. Hunt had EVERY OPPORTUNITY to stay in his room and call security/police to handle the situation outside in the hallway. Then the "victim" would have been the one arrested and he would have helped society and hopefully the girl learn form HER mistake. This incident escalated over the course of an hour.. If he just let the people in charge of handling such situations do their jobs, we wouldn't even be talking about him. He made a conscious decision and carried it out.
I think that is different than what Will is actually saying. @Will , if I have this wrong, apologies in advance... Basically, he believes that the NFL with it's far reaching audience and societal influence should be at the forefront of this issue (and others) by taking a hard line stance. In his opinion, the league doesn't care because it is too driven by the dollar. What I'm getting out of his post is that you don't have to fix society to do the right thing.
It isn't about fixing society, that's a whole other issue. We are talking about fixing the culture of the NFL and I think they are doing a piss poor job of fixing THEIR culture. If you have a way to fix ONE aspect of society, why not fix it?
We are talking about the NFL specifically here, and "The NFL" speaks out of both sides of it's mouth. In 2014: As part of the NFL’s new commitment to address violence off the field, Commissioner Roger Goodell said “even one case of domestic or sexual violence is unacceptable.” He went on to say: “effective immediately, violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence or sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to a suspension without pay of six games for a first offense, with consideration given to mitigating factors, as well as a longer suspension when circumstances warrant… a second offense will result in banishment from the NFL”. So, it IS acceptable, you just have to spend 6 games without pay if you decide to do it. "UNACCEPTABLE" would mean, if you do it, you are gone NOW. So, domestic violence...if there are mitigating circumstances, you could in essence do less than 6 games...as well as doing more than 6 games when circumstances warrant it...like what, the girl is paralyzed? What the hell, how are there tiers of domestic violence? Now, for me, if you are actually defending yourself...and I mean ACTUALLY in fear for your safety, then it isn't domestic violence... so, why the tiers?
One of Hunt's incedents is a bar fight were he and george atkinson and others alegedly beat down guy. I believe there was a story that said the man who got beat down started the fight. Grnted nfl guy ganging up on one guy is bad but if its true the other guy started it well to bad for him for being a dumbass.
Well, thanks, Tim. That's the gist I was trying to make, but its a deep subject that I really don't have all the answers for. I do believe the NFL could police themselves and their clients with more scrutiny without going over the deep end and turning everything into a goody two shoes league, lol. I suppose that giving second chances to repeat offenders, some, 3, 4 and 5 chances, kinda shows a tolerance. I enjoyed the convo, to say the least, you guy's carry on.
So, like I said before... Some people think that by not allowing a person to play a game for money...that's a death sentence. Wow...maybe this is part of what's wrong with society as a whole...
