Patrick Mahomes - Bears First Round Pick?

I used to think this but no so sure anymore. I think Pace's conservative approach to free agency tells me he is in it for the long haul, but maybe not for Fox. Fox isn't a guy who has shown a patience to build through the draft, which it is clear Pace is set on doing and the free agency signings show that. Only a few low $$ long term contracts and a lot of 1 year prove it deals. If the Bears have another disaster 5 win or less season next year, Fox will be the scapegoat and I believe Pace will be given a second HC hiring. I also think Fox was brought in to bring stability after the Emery/JuiceBox disaster and wasn't fired this offseason because the Bears know they will suck in 2017 so instead of eating 2 years with Fox, they will only have to eat one and Pace will be able to hire the guy that he wants going forward. Also believe that Fox was more of a McKaskey/Accorsi hire than it was Pace. They knew Fox would stabilize things and bring back some sort of respect to a franchise that was embarrassed by Emery/Juice Box. He helped to make things better but think Pace was told he would be shown patience and was told to rebuild from the ground up.

They have been selling in the media that they were trying to win last year and next year they want to win as well but the moves do not suggest that. They lost out in Free Agency in multiple bidding wars (on purpose in my opinion) and will rely heavily on the draft to provide help for next year. No way if you need to win next year to keep your job you don't at least bring a couple of those big name guys. They kept the interest out there to sound like they were trying but had no intention of spending big. Pace's aggressiveness in the second wave free agents with one year deals tells me that was the plan.

This may sound like a conspiracy theory but it is my feeling after what I saw them put on the field last year and what the roster will look like next year.

I'm not sure what the amount is but I believe the collective bargaining agreement you have to spend so much against the cap every season, you can't be to far under (a provision put in probably because of cheapskates like the McKaskey's). The Bears still have plenty of money and cutting him would only force them to have to spend more to get to that number for next year. Again, not positive on how that all works but I believe each team is required to spend 90% of money against the cap number each year. Not sure what the penalty is either but probably is money you just have to give to the players somehow.

All indications were that he was going to be cut once healthy. I'm not sure why that is but that was what I was reading. The quote from Glennon is confusing because Kendall Wright was signed basically to play the position Royal plays, maybe they are keeping him as a returner? Bears have a ton of money still so maybe they are just letting it play out. No idea why you would keep Royal, he is a walking injury waiting to happen.

 

Lots of time still, could be they want to see him in camp to see how the knee is holding up before cutting him.

 

The Bears had a private work-out with Mahomes the other day.

To me this is a good sign.

Again, no way I take him at #3. And no way he's there when we draft in the 2nd. So, if this is Pace's guy, look for a trade down.

 

The guy who wrote this thrad is a smart dude.

Yes. This is officially a necro...

 

A few thoughts:

1- You're right on all counts. You are a smart motherfucker, and it is a hell of a necro. But regardless "i told you so's" are an asshole move and i know that cos i do it and im an asshole.
2- This thread has reminded me how much i was on the "draft Watson" train at the time. Dammit.
3- It was interesting reading about Mahomes, specifically his target range of between 10-12 and the 2nd round. Pretty big range. Obvs KC believed in him and went for it, and yes they look like geniuses now. But knowing as we do how much the draft is a crapshoot....they took a big gamble and it came off. Doesn't change the odds next time tho...
4- Patg's philosophy on trading down is still bollocks. Sorry dude : )))
5- Aggie you son of a bitch, get back here! In fact, you probably already are, doing a spot of reading now and then. Start posting then!
6- Whatever happened to Solomon Thomas?
7- For those who aren't as lame as me and didn't reread the entire thread, please just read the bolded part of this quote. Cos thats some straight up insight right there and its the kind of thing that makes our board better than any other Bears board out there.


Honestly I'm finding it hard to believe, like blang, the Bears are even interested in QB at all. But if BPA comes around in Round 2 they might still snag someone. I honestly won't be all that surprised if they don't take a QB at all.

I would agree. Except... Pace named him as the starter.

The key to that statement?

"Pace".

He's not the HC and he's not the OC.

He shouldn't be naming the starter. That's the coaches job. And doing so this early really makes no sense whatsoever. It would indicate he has zero intention of using that #3 pick on a QB.

So he's either cock-blocking his coaching staff.

Or

He's bluffing.

 

I was pretty high on him as well. I still think he is far from a bust. But he does now look like the worst of the 3 (so far).

 

Yeah I miss aggie too. I don't think there was a guy that I so easily agreed with when he would explain his position it always made sense.

 

Mongo can gloat all he wants. Fine with me. Meanwhile, my posts look totally idiotic in hindsight.

Still too early though to say which of the 3 QBs will be best. Mahomes is running away with it but I keep waiting for him to come back to earth or for some of his risk-taking to bite him in the ass. And nobody has benefitted more from YAC that Mahomes. What happens when he's not surrounded by those weapons. What happens if Trubisky learns to throw a deep ball.

 

Thanks Blang.

I am happy to gloat.

But in truth, I think any fan would now, in hind sight, be ok with a trade back to pick up another pick AND get Mahomes instead of all we traded away to move up and take Trubisky.

I will always believe Pace felt he was fucking over the Browns by moving up and taking their guy.

I just don't yet know if it was worth it.

 

Yep LOL mine too. Except Myles Garrett. That guy is ferocious. But see below.

Yeah I wanted this guy. He's sporting a robust 14 tackles and 1 sack on the year in San Fran. So one more sack and 7 less tackles on the year than Leonard Floyd. Can I get a wash?

Its really not. I see zero point in actively looking to trade down just for the sake of doing it. Unless there's a team that's calling you offering a king's ransom because there's a guy they have to have with the pick you have, I'm a firm believer that you should have a top 3-5 big board for any situation and you take the best guy on your big board. It stems for my vitriol for mock draft fetishists and chicitysports, where there's a mock draft every day and trade downs for no reason.

It also seldom works. Jim Harbaugh in San Fran did it a lot. Look what happened to his roster (not his job, his roster), because they sucked. Belichick did it a lot, and it worked because Gronk was a trade down pick. But he also whiffed on several 1-4 round guys too.

Pace has kind of been unconventional. He traded up for MT. He traded up for Floyd. There were guys he had to have.

As KB would say, "revisionist history at its finest."

People thought Mahomes was another Cutler. Bomb arm from an air raid college offense. What few "pundits" and "old school football guys" have ignored, is that the NFL is changing too. Like sabremetrics in baseball or advanced analytics in basketball, hockey, etc., the future of the NFL is something we're already seeing.

Instead of teams drafting QBs to run a pro-style offenses, coaches like Nagy, Reid, Pederson, McVay, and more to come are changing the playbooks. It used to be that the QB sinks or swims learning an NFL offense, it cant be collegiate anymore. Well, now the RPO is here, because coaches and scouts and GMs are tailoring offenses to the strengths of the QBs coming out so they can get the most out of them.

And the RPO is at the heart heart of it. My point below about defenses changing and getting faster and more aggressive, the RPO is the best counter-balance to it to freeze defenses and keep them guessing.

The game is changing, I've harped on the hybrid LB/S before. Look at kids in high school or catch a high school game, its so different. Traditional defensive ends, the 6'5, 280 lb Alex Browns of the world are going the way of the dinosaur. Its speed and athleticism now. I hated the 3-4 defense when it came here, I loved the 4-3 and what it brought, still do. But the 3-4 is the way of the future, and don't be shocked to see 3-3-5 (where your hybrid S/LB guy is a focal point) sooner or later, because that's becoming the prime defense of college/HS teams against air raid offenses, and its being used more and more to stop RPO/option/pistol offenses, no longer "dime package."

Kids coming out now are lighter, leaner, faster, and far more athletic than ever. sans the OLinemen and the 0 gap NT you need for your 3-4 / 3-3-5.

The offensive guys are getting more athletic too. Qbs included. You're seeing fewer statuesque QBs sitting and throwing in a pocket. And when you see the Flacco's or Rapistburgers of the world, they take punishment.

As for the point, yes, Pace fucked over the browns. It was well reported the Browns were trying to trade back to #2 to get Trubisky, and Lynch loved moving down only 1 spot for his guy, Solomon Thomas. I'm as smart as San Fran's CTE ridden GM, can I have a job, Jed York?

Also, you just cant predict these things. Is Mahomes the same talent if he didn't sit for a year under Alex SMith in KC? We don't know. Is MT different if he didn't have Fox and Frodo and friends teaching him how to not run an offense? Maybe. We don't know.

 

I go back to 2012. At the end of that season the two best young QBs who took the league by storm were RG3 and Kaepernick. Where are they now?

In 2016 everyone including myself couldn't believe that Dak Prescott had fallen to the 4th round and that we, the Bears, passed on him 4 times. Now his stock is falling.

Yes, it seems like Mahomes is way better now and that we could have traded down for him. But it's still too early for me to say Pace fucked up. Trubisky could emerge as the best of the class or the worst.

At least one "pundit" has already given on up Trubisky though. Anyone see these comments from Michael Lombardi?

"No, I'm not buying Mitchell Trubisky," Lombardi said. "You couldn’t get me to buy Mitchell Trubisky if you had him on a discount rack at Filene’s Basement. There’s no chance. There’s no chance. He can’t throw the ball inbounds half the time. I mean, it’s a joke. I was in Chicago this week and all I saw was Trubisky jerseys and I'm thinking you people are crazy. You’re going to be selling them in three years. There’s no way."

 

I don't seem to have commented in this thread, originally, but there's no doubt my guy was Watson. I think it's still too early to judge any of these guys long-term, especially since Mahomes is in his first year starting. But there's no doubt that Mahomes is making everyone look bad - except the Chiefs. I think next year will tell us a lot about Trubisky. Another year with Nagy, another year to work on his own deficiencies... If he's not the man next year, then the doubters will start to have more substance than gut feelings.

 

This is why I come here, thanks for bringing this one back Mongo, it only goes to remind me how shocked I was we not only picked up Trubs but traded UP to get him. Totally bewildered.

So much this, the league and media loves to overreact. If you recall midway through last year everyone had already annointed Watson and the next coming..that hype train sure cooled off didn't it? Mahomes sat an entire year, which is probably what Pace *wanted* to do with Trubs, but Glennon was so unbelievably bad he had no choice.

Amazing what just 2 years does for perspective, give it another 2 and we'll know for sure what these 3 guys have.

And man Solomon Thomas, yikes. The draft sure is a crapshoot.

 

This is actually very good news as Lombardi is famous for having to put his foot in his mouth after poo pooing players and coaches. See his remarks about Pederson in Philly and McVay/Goff in LA. He was a hack as a front office guys. His drafting history might just be the worst of any modern era GM. Fuck this guy.



https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelp...ardi-i-think-i-know-what-good-coach-looks?amp

 

Tell us how you really feel prickface! What an idiotic thing to come out with.

I'd love to see Lombardi and La Canfora in a cockfight to the death, cos you be guaranteed not to have to listen to one of em ever again.

 

Fucking classic... Lombardi Drafted Jamarcus Russel.

 

In spite of those mechanics he gets the ball out on time and in stride, and if that is the case how much does it really matter what kind of mechanics a QB puts on display moving forward?

This is the kind of thinking that needed to be done before they pulled the trigger on Mitch. If there was anyone that could say I told you so it's right here because it's been spot on.

patg take a bow too.

Perhaps if the front office tuned into the consensus you guys created on this thread the Bears future could possibly be better written.

 

Three things I would have done differently in the last 5-6 years that I called and likely would have changed the team...


1) I would not have cut Urlacher that year. Getting him to buy in on Tuckers defense (hell, having him run/on field coach it) would have lead to a playoff team.

2) Kevin White. Fucking stupid. And caused because he dumped Marshall.

3) Mahomes... I truly believe we could have traded back, grabbed him and another top 10 pick.

 

If the Bears did indeed trade down to draft Mahomes they more than likely would have missed out on him. The Chiefs traded up to get him at 10. So who are we trading with to move down?

The Chiefs? They probably use the pick on Mahomes unless Mahomes was their second choice and they really wanted Mitch. I doubt that.

The Texans? They were content to let 2 QB's go off the board before they traded up so I dont see them coming up to 3.

The Browns were the most likely team. They could have traded us the 12th they traded to the Texans and took Trubisky. It was rumored they were very into him. In that case the Chiefs are still more than likely trade up to 10 and get Mahomes right under out noses. We are then left with Watson who just might have been a better choice than Trubisky.