WEEK 8 - STEELER WEEK....Cle at Pit

In what sense has Hue impeded his development? He's a rookie and already competing with veterans every week. He rarely looks like a rookie. I don't see any decline in his skills to this point and teams have more film on him every week...he really SHOULD be declining.

The only thing that is hurting this team right now is the refs getting in their heads. Hue needs to nip that immediately and hasn't, but I don't know that it is a fireable offense.

 

Let's start with, I didn't say he has impeded the developement, I said he could....And not trying to be wise, but this article explains how he could be a detriment to Mayfield better than I ever could...
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...at-hue-jackson-could-save-the-browns-offense/

 

I was going to start a new #FireHue" thread for this purpose but, @Duff_Beer_Doug beat me to it.

 

I apologize, I didn't mean to say YOU were saying he was impeding his development, it was referenced that SOME could believe he was impeding it and why they want him fired. I was just referencing the post you made.

That said, I read all the articles. Hue stuck his foot in his mouth, but doing that also will not impede Baker's progress. The only thing that would impede his progress in 2018 would be a changing of coaching staff. I am adamantly against that. Changing Baker's routine at this point would be the worst thing for him. I don't want Hue gone, I don't want Haley gone and I don't want Zampese gone. I really don't want either Stanton or Taylor gone either, but he could probably absorb Tyrod being traded if they could get a 3rd or 4th for him. A 5th and beyond wouldn't make up for Baker's development imho...nor do I think they could get a 3rd or 4th for a half of a year loan from a team. The only one that might find merit in that would be the Jaguars at this point.

 

Baker Mayfield's time to throw is 2.83 seconds. That's better than Patrick Mahomes (2.86), Aaron Rodgers (2.87), Russell Wilson (2.89), Jared Goff (2.90), and Dak Prescott (3.04) - among others. Compare Baker's "Next Gen" stats to Mahomes for a second...



Mahomes is lighting the NFL on fire while Baker is trying to will this team to competitiveness. But their stats from a playing the position perspective are damn near identical. I think we can safely stop asking so much from Baker at this point and start asking more from the coaches around him - and yes, that includes Todd Haley.

Youngest Teams
Rams: 7-0
Packers: 3-2-1
Colts: 2-5
Jets: 3-4
Cowboys: 3-4
Texans: 4-3
Combined: 22-18-1 (0.549)

Browns' average age is 24.5 (as of July 2018), these teams are between 25.3 and 25.7.

Oldest Teams
Falcons: 3-4
Panthers: 4-2
Patriots: 5-2
Bills: 2-5
Titans: 3-4
Cardinals: 1-6
Combined: 18-23 (0.439)

These teams are between 26.7 and 27.3. Turns out... age is just a number.

This was a roller coaster paragraph for me. You had me, lost me, had me again, and then lost me. There are *for sure* reasons to fire Hue mid-season. Personally, I think the negative effects of a mid-season coaching change outweigh these though, so I'm of the opinion he shouldn't be fired yet. But then, to give him a full season (after 1-31) seems conflicting to begin with. For me, 2018 is just going through the motions.

As for a reason to fire him. Baker Mayfield, in having to address a completely unnecessary distraction Hue himself created by throwing Todd Haley under the bus, seemed to side with Todd Haley: we don't need to re-invent the wheel. If there's any doubt that the rift between Hue and Haley is a disadvantage to Mayfield's development, then he must be fired swiftly because Baker's development as franchise QB of this team is paramount.

 

Take it to Duff's thread . . . PLEASE.

 

Just to set the record straight... you spent the first page of this thread arguing with me about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' talent level and with another poster about Hue.

What are your thoughts on the Pittsburgh game?

 

1. Duff's thread wasn't started until page 4 of this thread.

2. Unfortunately:

• Pittsburgh's biggest weakness (defensive secondary) goes up against the Browns' biggest weakness (wide receivers)
• One of Pittsburgh's strengths (run defense) goes up against the one of the few Browns' perceived strengths (running game)
• The Browns' biggest strength (defensive secondary) goes up against Pittsburgh's biggest strength (wide receivers)
• The Browns' pass rush goes up against one of the better O-line units in the NFL
• The Steelers are coming off a bye week and have had a lot of time to heal their nicks and bruises and think about their week 1 performance.
• The Browns are coming off another disappointing overtime loss.

I suspect the Steelers to jump early and not let up. Steelers by, at least, 14.

 

Agree wholeheartedly with these two points... that's my biggest reason for concern. A soggy, poorly-officiated overtime in Week 1 (a game in which the Steelers notoriously always sleep-walk through) resulted in a tie with Tyrod Taylor at the helm. This Pittsburgh defense has two weeks to scheme for Mayfield and if they look to see what the Chargers did, it shouldn't be hard to plan for him.

The flip side has to be adjustments by the Browns (and Haley) where he's going to have to abandon his deep, long-developing routes. This is especially important with a shaky offensive line. Our offensive line is actually very good up to the 2.5s mark (average time to throw for NFL QBs this season is 2.62 and recall Mayfield is at 2.83). If Haley (and Hue, allegedly) stay married to their long-developing routes with a wide receiver corp that includes Jarvis Landry and... a handful of rookies or previously cut cast-offs, it'll be a long day at the office for Baker.

 

Even with Pitts secondary woes, Baker is looking too much for the big play and while he is going through his progressions, He's not recognizing plays and coverages as good as he could be. he's not going to get the amount of time against Pitt so it could be a rough game.

I hope its not...ftr

 

I don't think Pitt is going to have any secondary woes against our walking wounded WR corps. Maybe they have 5 TE's on the roster to run block and this will be the first run-only game since the invention of the forward pass. The Steeler pass rush is pretty solid and I don't think our line has improved much since The Tie in Game 1. Add in Pitt coming off the bye week and I just can't paint a pretty picture here for the Browns. I'm praying for turnovers although we can't seem to score when we recover them.

 

After the 1950 Cleveland Browns, having recently joined the NFL, beat the brakes of the Philadelphia Eagles, their coach complained that all Paul Brown did was "put it in the air".

The Browns and Eagles met again that season and Brown only called running plays. The Browns won the game 13-7.

 

4 turnovers recovered and only 13 points and 69 total yards.......and 9 penalties.........Kinda like most of the TB game last week.

 

I actually researched this game for an article I was writing. Otto Graham did throw and complete one pass during the game. However, it was called back for a penalty and, thus it wasn't registered in the stats as an official play.

Paul Brown actually inferred prior to the game that the Browns would not throw a pass and would STILL beat the Eagles. That there is some serious trash talking.

 

maybe we can be this dominant by the time I am Lime's age.

(if you don't recall, I would have to double my current age)

 

I see a very tough day for Baker, throwing the ball. He will not have time and has little in the way of targets. For that reason I believe we "have to" run the ball, and then run again, and after that run once more. I realize Pitt is good vs the run, but I believe running the ball is a team mindset, and it's time to plant that seed.

I believe they will fail as often as they succeed, but break a few too. Our D has to be superior, and take Ben off his mark, and hopefully steal a few balls, like they were able to do week 1. If we commit to running the ball and have even marginal success, it will allow us to get a couple of open "dare I call them recievers" for some big plays once the secondary cheats up.

I can't see us winning a pass happy shoot out at all. Gotta strap it on, and go at their strength, or play into their hands, playing to avoid it. I say go at them. Don't let them feel like they've got you scared. Win lose or draw, hit em, and hit em hard.

 

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/new...ittsburgh?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral

^^^That's the attitude! Go Browns!!!

 

Browns go into “must-win” against Steelers with chance to get back in the AFC North race, snap 14-game skid in Pittsburgh, give boost to Hue Jackson

The discussion of the Browns was filled with doom and gloom during the week.

Their second straight loss was a 26-23 overtime heartbreaker at Tampa Bay, the latest example of blown chances. After so much optimism just a couple of weeks ago, the record slipped to 2-4-1 and the talk returned to coach Hue Jackson’s job security, his strained relationship with offensive coordinator Todd Haley after an emotional postgame interview and another season on the brink of careening into irrelevance and upheaval.

“When we become that team that starts winning games consecutively, week in and week out — regardless of where it is, on the road, at home, wherever — then I think that the narrative will change,” Jackson said. “We will change it, but it is not going to change until then.”

The vibe inside the locker room was much different than on talk radio and social media. A sense of urgency was obvious, but it wasn’t accompanied by one of impending doom.

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“We still think we can win the division,” defensive back Damarious Randall said. “Every one of our goals are in front of us and winning this game is a big steppingstone to completing our goals.

“I still feel like we’re a very dangerous team.”

The quote can seem ridiculous given the record and history. The Browns have never had a winning record inside the AFC North, let alone won the division, and haven’t been to the playoffs since 2002.

But three of their four losses this season were decided in the final minute, and the Browns are 1-0-1 inside the division. An upset win Sunday in Pittsburgh would move them a half-game behind the Steelers (3-2-1) and possibly a half-game out of first place, depending on the results of Baltimore and Cincinnati.

A loss would leave them in the cellar and 2½ games back with 6-1 Kansas City headed to town.

“This is obviously a must-win for us and we are going in there with that mindset, to do anything we can do to win this game,” Randall said. “This is a feeling to really just gain control of the AFC North.

“This is almost going to be a playoff atmosphere-type game for us. We’re going to do what we’ve got to do to win this game.”

“We want to get this bad taste of losing out of our mouth, try to get another division win and try to jumble it up a little bit more in the division,” left guard Joel Bitonio said.

Rookie quarterback Baker Mayfield will make his first start against the Steelers after backing up Tyrod Taylor in the 21-21 tie in the opener. The offense has continued to get off to slow starts in Mayfield’s four tries, but he rebounded nicely in the second-half comeback last week and will look to create more momentum against Pittsburgh’s 27th-ranked pass defense (282.3 yards a game).

The Browns need to start faster (eight points in seven first quarters), capitalize on the league-high 20 takeaways from the defense (31 points off of them) and finish off the victories in overtime (three points in four extra periods). They’ve scored more than 23 points only once, in the 45-42 overtime loss at Oakland.

“What it comes down to is doing little things right,” Mayfield said. “Early on in the game when emotions are high, you have to settle in quickly and do your job. Late in the game when it really matters, you do not have to do too much. You just have to do your job.

“If we come out with a win on Sunday, that is a huge division win. We need to take advantage of this opportunity and put ourselves in a good spot moving forward.”

The rematch seven weeks after the opener in Cleveland has an element of unfinished business on both sides. The Steelers had a 21-7 fourth-quarter lead but couldn’t hold it. After the rally, the Browns wasted chances to win in overtime, including having a 43-yard field goal blocked.

“You do not know who is the better out of the two yet,” defensive end Myles Garrett said. “We have to finish it off and see who wins Round 2.”

“I definitely feel like we let them sneak out of here,” safety Jabrill Peppers said. “We know what we have to do to win. It is just about going to battle.”

The Browns have ended a couple of lengthy losing streaks already this season — overall and in the division — and next on the agenda is winning on the road. They’ve lost 24 in a row overall, dating to 2015, and 14 straight at Heinz Field.

The last win in Pittsburgh was 33-13 on Oct. 5, 2003, with Tim Couch at quarterback. It was Cleveland’s only win at Heinz Field in 17 tries.

“We want to go down on the road and win,” said right tackle Chris Hubbard, who spent the previous four seasons with the Steelers. “That’s huge in a very hostile environment.”

“This is a very confident team. What better way to make a statement about playing on the road and wining on the road than in Pittsburgh?” Jackson said.

Speculation has spiked this week that Jackson could be fired if the Browns lose three more and hit the bye week with a five-game skid, or possibly sooner. The heat was turned up further when he said he would get more involved to help the struggling offense in the heat of the moment after the loss. He and Haley met Monday and Jackson’s role didn’t increase.

The turnpike rivalry has been cruel to Browns coaches. The last five have been fired after season-ending losses to the Steelers, starting with Romeo Crennel in 2008. He, Pat Shurmur and Rob Chudzinski were handed pink slips after trips to Pittsburgh, with Eric Mangini and Mike Pettine canned after home losses.

“Obviously we’ve lost a lot of close games. We could easily be sitting here talking about Hue as the coach of the year at 6-1,” Randall said. “I really don’t think that’s the vibe around here. Definitely it’s not the vibe that I have.

“I just try to cancel that out, the white noise is what we would call it. I feel like Hue’s been doing a very good job at getting the guys ready to go.”

Jackson said his players are ready for the challenge.

“They understand what is at stake,” he said. “You guys put it out there pretty clearly. We have not won on the road. We have not won in Pittsburgh. They hear it all.”

“It’s everything to this organization,” Hubbard said.

“It is a big game. We understand that,” receiver Jarvis Landry said. “It is no secret, we have to win the game.”

Scott Petrak - Brownszone

 

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport suggests Browns OC Todd Haley is in danger of being fired if the team's struggling offense does not improve.

Per Rapsheet, the team's recent struggles on offense have led to "dysfunction" within the organization. Specifically, there seems to be a disagreement over play-calling with coach Hue Jackson vowing to be more involved in that area after previously giving OC Todd Haley full autonomy over the offense. Cleveland's front office is getting antsy and according to Rapoport, "change is expected to come" if the Browns don't fix their current offensive woes. Haley, who was let go by Pittsburgh last season after feuding with QB Ben Roethlisberger, could be coaching for his job on Sunday.

 

Haley is a weird one. He definitely improved the Steelers offense when he was there. Ben went from the most sacked QB to least sacked while Haley was there. But Haley wouldn’t call a QB sneak ever.