O k a y . . . IF injuries are unavoidable, then why not at least attempt to minimize them and, at the same time, get somes reps to the guy(s) who would be the next man up and improve the cohesiveness of replacement players.
To the point of the discussion at hand: If I remember correctly, Hue was being told which players weren't participating / were being limited by his health / conditioning staff. I mean, he's obviously in charge and directs them accordingly, but if my staff came to me with recommendations, I'd listen to them. This board, in large, has championed that with getting him an OC and letting that OC do their job.
Then let's break down some of what YOU addressed: I believe most have stated that they believe this team is "capable" of a 7 win season, or even the playoffs. I have news for you, there are 32 teams capable of winning in the NFL. Some have more mountains to climb to do it in 2018, but these are professional teams, none are so far apart that they can't improve by 10 games or tank by 10 games given in-season circumstances. Most comply with mediocrity and are more predictable, but saying a team is capable of 7 wins is anything but an over reaction. It's the antithesis of overreaction, it is mediocrity at it's finest, which is the model of the NFL for parity's sake. We have discussed it, but so has the national media, in several channels. Not sure where you have a hot take that this is an overreaction to this fanbase or this message board in particular. Unless of course, you personally believe we have such foresight that the national media reads our threads and structures their writing/reporting accordingly. At that point, it wouldn't be 3 wins...it would be 4 wins in 48 tries. 3 years of utter embarrassment, well more than that, but the last 3 were under Hues watch. And, where did you get 3 anyway? Talk about over reaction, you take a statement of 4-6 wins and tag one off the lowest talking point. It was an observation on a tv segment. No one is predicting that Baker Mayfield is going to be a bust based on this. It was one observation on his willingness to observe and follow his predecessor's lead. I have very high hopes for Baker Mayfield. I believe he has more talent than any one to come out since Andrew Luck and have been talking about those talents since last college football season, not just since he became a Cleveland Brown. Observations bring about hope or reservations, there isn't an in between for 90% of subject matter. It is a talking point on a tv show that was observed by most of this message board. I believe you are over reacting to my comment moreso, than I am over reacting to Baker Mayfield. Again, I didn't say I expected him to bust because of this, I simply stated one of the traits for greatness, he has shown an unwillingness to participate in thus far. We may see that turn around next week, who the hell knows. Well, then you really shouldn't have anything to say about it..nor should you even care to continue watching it if it is so predictable and boring. But, what ever floats your boat. Continue to simply state the shortcomings of a conversation among a fan base, simply to get reaction, it obviously works as I have spent too much time going over your comment already.
Because with a 1-31 record, the team has shown how far behind the rest of the league they are. They need to close that gap somehow and practice in order to make this a cohesive unit is the one thing you have to get that done. Doing less than the rest of the league will not close gaps, it widens them. Hue is basing injuries on the past. If any player has been hurt in the past, they are getting veteran days off. Then, when they are standing there is practice not paying attention because they "have the day off" he is getting irritated with them. How about not giving them the day off and they are forced to participate mentally. Yes, we championed an OC, and now that OC is being handicapped by only having a partial roster each day to become a cohesive unit. How can anyone not see this as a detriment to the team's growth? I am at a loss here... (edit) ANY athlete knows, there are aches and there are injuries...They are two distinctly different animals. Any player that has an injury, no matter how minor, should be given the time and opportunity to cure that injury. Not an injury that was 12 months ago and there are no current symptoms of that injury...but because there is a history, well, take extra days off to avoid opportunity for the injury. That's teaching the players they need to be coddled, a coddled player in this league is one that will need replaced sooner than later.
If it makes you feel any better, the Steelers give veteran players at least one practice off almost every week of the season. Even training camp.
This is the important part of your post, and it clearly defines a misunderstanding between you and I that is fundamental to my original posting: I watched it because it was entertaining, and a cool inside look at the organization. I'm a big supporter of the Browns - this is the first time I've watched Hard Knocks during the year it was filmed, and not years afterwards. However, I expected to see Jackson be a soft coach. I expected Landry to come in and absolutely wow everyone within earshot of him. I expected Mayfield and his fellow rookie QB to be college-bros, through and through. I expected to see a team that is digging out of a 0 win season, not one that is on the cusp of a playoff season. I came into it with those expectations, and they were fulfilled. Others, here, came into it with much loftier, more unrealistic expectations. As such, those people have been deflated, and came to this thread today talking about how much more pessimistic they are now, and how disappointed they were in some of the things they saw. My point: these things were predictable to most. I agree with the notion of having everyone on the field working hard. As a coach, my students work harder than most other programs in the county - at least, for as long as I have them at practice. We also have an agreement - we work hard, but we look out for each others' well beings as best as possible. There's nothing wrong with your body failing, as long as you set it up for as much success as possible. When it fails, go take a seat, and let's work on getting it right. We share those expectations, so that nobody looks at someone on the sideline and gets upset. We know we're out there together either way. I know Jackson is soft, and I don't think he's a particularly good coach. Those guys standing on the sideline that he was staring at, for example - a good coach walks over to them, tells them what needs to be said, and then everyone goes back to their job. No playing around. That said, the conditioning staff was clearly outlining the players that needed participation exceptions. It's not as simple as your presumption, that any player with any injury history was sidelined - that'd be the whole damn team. If you disagree with the conditioning staff, that's fine, but that's who the issue is with. The alternative is that Jackson practices these guys anyway, and should they get hurt, he's blamed for not listening to his conditioning staff.
When was the last time the Steelers only won 1 game in a season? Let alone 1 game in two seasons...Would you be willing to admit there is a gigantic difference in readiness between these two teams? I believe this is what Todd Haley is speaking to. Guys like Joe Thomas were also given a day off each week, they are not the ones that need to put the time into becoming professionals. ALSO, those are the players getting time off in Pittsburgh. We don't currently have a single player on this team that is at that level. Once reached, then I would agree 100% and I don't think Haley would be complaining either.
I agree with this, believe it or not.... Don't all fans have higher expectations though? The hope is there for the team that is in your heart, hope is the one aspect that isn't computed into outside teams. And I get that..and I can appreciate it as well. But there must be exceptions to the rule when dealing with a team that has 1 win in 32 tries. The risk of injury in no way out weighs the need for cohesion on this particular team. Once cohesion is established, knock yourself out.
How many days a week do you practice? In our program, we have Sundays off completely, but we also have scheduled days off from contact. Sunday - off Monday - film study for the following week, as well as walk through for the upcoming opponent with limited contact. Tuesday - balls to the wall. Offense and Defense alike are readying themselves for their opponent Wednesday - see Tuesday Thursday - Polished walk through and extensive film study of the opponent Friday Night Lights Saturday - breakfast as a team and look over film from the previous night, no contact or walk throughs Now, professionally, you might expect a little more, no?? BY RULE of the CBA: Every training camp is governed by the rules of the NFL's collective bargaining agreement. Here are the rules pertaining to training camp practices: *The first day of training camp is limited to physical exams, meetings and classroom instruction. Running and conditioning are the only on-field activities permitted. *No contact is allowed and no pads can be worn on the second and third days of training camp. *After the third day of training camp two-a-days are permitted with the following restrictions: *Players may be on the field for a total of no more than four hours per day. *Players may participate in no more than one padded practice per day, which shall be no longer than three hours of on-field activities. *There must be at least a three-hour break after the first practice. *The second practice on the same day may only be for a maximum of the remaining available on-field time and has to be limited to only walk-through instruction (no helmets, full-speed pre-snap and walking pace after the snap). *The three-hour limit on padded practices begins as soon as position coaches start to coach players on the field. *If a team begins a padded practice but the practice is canceled within 60 minutes of its start due to inclement weather or any other reason beyond the team's control, the practice won't count as a padded practice. *A padded practice is defined as a practice in which players are required to wear helmets and shoulder pads. *Teams are required to film all on-field activities during training camp. A copy of the film needs to be maintained until 30 days after the start of the regular season. The NFLPA can view the film if a player files a complaint alleging a violation of the training camp rules. A mandatory off day every 5 days. This is just a start...It doesn't even go into the limitations on contact, or the NO contact rules governing practices in the NFL. With such limited amount of time for actual football contact, every session counts, imho. The Browns schedule for practice in the 2018 training camp: Thursday, July 26: 2:35-5:30 p.m. No contact Friday, July 27: 3-5:55 p.m. No contact Saturday, July 28 (annual Browns blood drive): 2:35-5:30 p.m. No Contact Sunday, July 29: 3-5:55 p.m. Monday, July 30: 2:35-5:30 p.m. Tuesday, July 31: No practice Wednesday, Aug. 1: 3-5:55 p.m. Thursday, Aug. 2: 3-5:55 p.m. Friday, Aug. 3: 4-5:30 p.m. Saturday, Aug. 4: 4-5:30 p.m. Sunday, Aug. 5: No practice Monday, Aug. 6: 3-5:55 p.m. Tuesday Aug. 7: 3-5:55 p.m. Wednesday, Aug. 8: No practice Thursday, Aug. 9: Preseason game at N.Y. Giants, 7 p.m., WEWS Ch. 5 Friday, Aug. 10: No practice Saturday, Aug. 11: No practice Sunday, Aug. 12: 3-5:55 p.m. Monday, Aug. 13: 3-5:55 p.m. Tuesday, Aug. 14: 3-5:55 p.m. Wednesday, Aug. 15: 2:35-5:30 p.m. Thursday, Aug. 16: No practice Friday, Aug. 17: Preseason game vs. Buffalo at FirstEnergy Stadium, 7:30, WEWS Ch. 5. So, from the first day of training camp, to the 2nd pre-season game, a THREE week period..or 21 days.. There were 12 days of practice where contact was allowed. Mind you, not every one of these days includes contact, but there were only 12 days of allowed contact. And out of those 12 days over a 3 week period, Hue finds it necessary to give extra days off to certain players, from what I gather, it is an extensive list. Those players can choose to NOT take the day off and it has been chronicled that two of those choosing to participate rather than take their "veteran days" are Tyrod Taylor and Jarvis Landry. The two leaders of this team....
Negative. I shouldn't have to repeat this, but it takes more than a roster to go 1-31. How is this level of scapegoating anywhere near acceptable? We "pissed and moaned" for two seasons. Why are you defending someone who took two full NFL seasons to realize he couldn't (1) coach quarterbacks, (2) call plays, (3) be the offensive coordinator, and (4) be the head coach all at once? He hired a guy in Todd Haley who's significantly more qualified than him as both a play-caller, coordinator, and head coach (19-26 and a playoff appearance). That's a good move. Disagreeing with Todd Haley by playing the "it's my team, I'll do what I want" card (that he certainly played in 2016 and 2017 while he was going 1-31) is not only childish, it shows an unwillingness to do what's necessary to pull the team out of 1-31. Did you watch and hear Landry's speech? That's just one of all NFL players who would disagree with that notion. Joe Thomas famously said it takes thousands of practice snaps to get an offensive line gelling together. Gregggggg Williams said - and it's been echoed by others, including Belichick - that you don't really know how the defense is going to perform until about Week 4 because of the limits now on practice time and contact. Hue Jackson is giving days off to 22 and 23 year old players, many of whom are 1-31 in their NFL careers.
These three statement can all be true, FWIW... Hue Jackson is a terrible NFL coach I want Hue Jackson to do well in 2018 and win as many games as possible I want Hue Jackson replaced with an upgrade the minute one becomes available
Just thought I would wander over and add my $.02 on the new season of hard knocks staring your Browns. First I am surprised at how many of you never watched the show before. I’ve been addicted since the show started. Great to get an insiders view of the happenings of a pro football team. If any of you are interested I would suggest reading Collision Low Crossers. Great book giving a very detailed look into the inner workings of a pro team over the course of a full season. Especially the work that coaches have to put in and how much sacrifice lower level coaches make to climb the ladder. The first thing that stood out to me about the first episode is how much of a players coach Hue is. Too much in my opinion. He takes babying players to a hole new level and I don’t mean just giving vets days off. How he talked about Josh Gordon was troubling. I get giving him the time he needs to get himself right but at some point a line needs to be drawn. At least change the mind set that this guy is not now or probably ever going to be reliable. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. Hue is just all don’t worry about it it will be fine. Landry is the real deal. Thought he would be a little more diva than he is. Seems to be the right guy to turn around the mindset of the team from the players side. Baker didnt seem all that interested in the early wake ups. But I would t worry about that too much. Takes time for rookies to develope a routine. Thought Hues message was spot on.
I don't recall which coach it was, possibly RB Coach, but he asked if they can dress the players and just not use them that day. Either way at this point you are trying to coach attitude or handle morale. Its really the same thing, but if you tell someone they have an "off day" they *should be* excited and ready to take mental reps VS dressing them and not using them, after probably 30-45 minutes (depending on players ability) they will be aggravated that they're not getting in when they usually would have. I think Hue is just going with the side of optimism on this. Whether he is a good HC or not is very debatable. What none of us have is his experience to let him think that this is what works, and he is entitled to that because, as he stated, he is driving this bus.
Also, from seeing peoples general reaction to Hard Knocks, **MANY** are not taking into account that this is edited to tell a story. You're seeing what is wanted to be seen by the producers. There very well could be other moments that completely contradict anything that was seen, but it didn't tell a story as well as the moments that were chosen.
First off, it's a TV show, and as dogside pointed out there may have been many snippets that simply didn't fit the story they wanted to tell. The Coaches meeting is the one that bothers me most, but I would agree that Hue's "sunshine" treatment of Gordon is odd. I think we saw two coordinators and some other faces in the room that have a very different view of Hue's "off days" strategy. I don't know which side is right but it's clear there are two sides. I have to wonder if there was "more conversation" between the short ones we got to see. I also wonder if Hue will take what "his" coaches said, and take another look at who and how many guys get "days off", going forward. I feel like that won't be the last time this topic is discused, but I think it might be better one on one, where it doesn't become a "challenge" to Hue as head coach, with the full staff, thus Hue's leadership is being questioned. That seems like a bad place to throw down that gauntlet. The coordinators should take a lesson from that meeting, and approach the subject differently, as well. Genrally I agree with building the team's toughness, as Landry pointed out with emotion, in the recievers room. I really like that he did that. It needed to be said. I remain iffy on Hue, but still support his being back, for the continuity it brings, and he is trying to be a true Head Coach now. I gotta put my faith in the staff to get these guys ready to go. I would feel so much better about this team with Josh Gordon playing. Without him, I feel we can be a good O, but with him we are a dangerous one, and I gotta believe his presence allows the RBs and the other recievers to find room to work. Get him back. Get him back now, or get Dez and let's go.
