Greatest you have seen

Talking about the GOAT and the Bills...

 

I read OBJ and nearly fell out of my chair. The man can’t even dominate his own era.

He has “fun” hair, I’ll give him that.

 

Hahaha. Dante Hall was incredible, there's no doubt about it. I think that's an interesting conversation, and one I wished I had more experience with to objectively comment on (I saw a lot more of Hester than Hall).

All I know is that, as a Hurricanes fan, I watched Devin in college. As a South Floridan, I saw him in a high school game. Hell, I played a pick up game against him out in the Glades. The guys wanted to haze the Freshman safety who thought he was hot shit, so they brought me out to see what real players looked like. Devin ran right past me twice for scores before I realized I should just sit down and learn. So, I've got some bias, because I've been marveling at the dude my entire life.

Thinking about the original question more, for other positions, it's hard not to say Tomlinson or AP for RB. But I reserve the right to change my answer as my memory gets its shit together.

 

Josh Cribbs? Hester was pretty special though.

 

Respectfully, Josh Cribbs doesn't belong in the same conversation as either of those guys. Personally, I don't think Hall was as electric or game-changing as Hester. But, I recognize Hall's outrageous talent, and how he put it to use. Cribbs was a good return man for a few years. That's about it.

 

absolutely. your point about availability definitely weighs in for everyone and Gonzalez was a monster that never got hurt.

Im just gonna put out the stats for when they are on the field
Rec/game, Yards/game, TD/game
Gronkowski- 4.6, 70.4, .75
Gonzalez- 4.9, 56, .41
Sharpe- 4, 49.3, .30
Witten- 4.8, 52.1, .28

 

I was thinking about this too Will. LT may of been the greatest actual football player I've ever watched, he changed the game really. And I hate the Giants(although BB did create him )

I was also thinking of the all to short career guys. It came from when I thought of Bo Jackson and Sterling Sharpe after I had answered. Both were freaks and both could be considered the best albeit for a brief moment in time.

 

I'll disagree that he doesn't belong in the conversation. His kick return numbers are better then either if them. I still agree with you on Hester his punt return talent was otherworldly.

 

Respectfully, you already admitted you have very little to go off of outside the Chicago/Miami area. Most of us, being a little longer in the tooth, have witnessed many of the players being discussed here. I'm not sure you qualify to delete one of those that someone else is acknowledging after your confession a page back.

Again, I am not dismissing your opinions at all here...I am asking you to respect those other opinions, especially with your own admissions of inexperience outside your realm.

 

On the DLine/ any rusher, maybe anywhere on defense I have JJ Watt. Even as a 3-4 he dominates.

LB: Urlacher barely edging Ray Lewis

DB? Troy probably just edging out Dawkins then Reed.

 

DL/Edge- LT
ILB-Singletary
DB- Primetime @ CB/Ronnie Lott @ S

 

You misunderstood my caveat, given earlier. I'll clarify: I'm in my mid-late 20's. In my teenage years, I didn't get to watch as much out-of-area football as I wanted. I've also always been a big Browns supporter. Cribbs is not someone I'm unfamiliar with, at all. He doesn't belong in the same conversation. He simply never had the ability that Hester or Hall had. Was he good? Absolutely. During his career, he was one of the best. Hester was the best. I'm not here to shit on other people's opinions, but I don't think anyone who watched enough of those guys' play can say that Cribbs was a comparable talent to Hester or Hall.

And, again, I have watched plenty of both Hester and Cribbs. This is not an area in which I'm lacking experience. I try to only comment on something if I have the knowledge to work off of in the first place. You can say that Cribbs is the best you've ever seen. Again, respectfully, I disagree.

 

I appreciate you being on my side in this one. However, he is old enough to have seen all three play and have an opinion on them. I just disagree with completely disregarding Cribbs with the other two.

 

That's all I was saying as well...


(edit) In fact, I am not disagreeing with his opinion on Hester either...I actually agree that Hester is the greatest of all time, but Cribbs and Hall are at least in the conversation.

 

No, it wasn't.

And again, when discussing who were great returners in the 2000's, Cribbs deserves to be mentioned. "Greatest You've Ever Seen"? He does not deserve to be mentioned. That's the discussion at hand.

Moving on:

The best DB / Safety I've ever seen (I don't know that it's fair to lump them in) was Ed Reed. Sean Taylor was one of the guys that could have threatened that title, if he had been able to reach the peak of his career, I think. But Reed was so thoroughly game-changing, as a player.

 

Whatever young man:

The only thing Hester has on Cribbs is # of TDs, he was a punt return specialist and Cribbs was a Kick return specialist. Two totally different animals and each had their respected dominance.

Hester 11 year career:
11,028 return yards
PR average per attempt 11.7, longest PR 89 yards
KR average per attempt 24.9, longest KR 98 yards

Cribbs 10 year career:
13,488 return yards
PR average per attempt 10.7, longest PR 84 yards
KR average per attempt 26.1, longest KR 103 yards

TDs, Hester beats him 19 - 9, which is why I have him above Cribbs, but Cribbs was electric after that football was kicked, he could see the field as well as anyone I have ever watched.

 

Hester did some impossible shit like looking he was almost parallel to the ground making an impossible cut on a return for a TD.

 

Billy White Shoes Johnson & Gale Sayers would have to be in any conversation about great returners.

 

Nah, that's not how you start a productive conversation.

This notion that Hester was a punt return specialist has been repeated by you and SPress, and it's wrong. He dominated both phases of the return game. As I said, his vision and instinct is second to none (ever), and that is not a skill that is specific to one discipline over the other. I was a return specialist in high school (notable only as an experience, not for the prestige in any way). If anything, kick return is easier. But that's not the relevant discussion. Hester was more talented than Cribbs. Anyone who watched both objectively shouldn't be arguing against that.

You put up numbers that showed a difference of about a yard average per return, split between both players. There is no relevance whatsoever to "Longest return". However, you did mention the absolutely significant part: Devin scored more than twice as many TD's as Cribbs. Also, Devin had 20 TD's, but I never brought up stats, because they're irrelevant. Devin was the more talented player, and it wasn't close, relative to the talent level of the NFL. Cribbs was better than most during his time in the NFL (the same time as Devin). Hester was the best. That's the conversation.

If you loved Cribbs, I get that, I won't dispute that, I won't take it away from you. But to say that his talent was comparable with Devin's is to say that you haven't watched both players objectively. Put on the tape, and say the same thing afterwards. I don't think you will.

 

Agreed. I never saw them, so I can't include them. But I would still say that we saw a once-in-a-lifetime talent in Hester.