The Ditch part deux

Lets talk 'Tanking' for a moment...

BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) Ryan O'Reilly was unable to hide his dejection as he acknowledged that the Sabres’ latest last-place finish led him to question his love for hockey.

If that wasn’t enough, the high-priced center accused the Sabres of adopting a mindset of “being OK with losing.”

“It’s crept into all of our games. Yeah, it’s disappointing. It’s sad,” O’Reilly said Monday, two days after Buffalo closed one of its worst seasons in franchise history. “I feel throughout the year I’ve lost the love of the game multiple times, and just need to get back to it because it’s eating myself up, and eats the other guys up, too.”

Losing is all O’Reilly knows in the three seasons since being acquired in a trade with Colorado, after which the Sabres signed him to a seven-year, $52.5 million contract extension.

Rather than being part of a rebuilding plan, which included Buffalo selecting Jack Eichel with the No. 2 pick in the 2015 draft, O’Reilly and company find themselves back at square one. They became the NHL’s first team to finish 31st – following this year’s addition of the expansion Vegas Golden Knights – after back-to-back 30th-place finishes in 2013-14 and 2014-’15.

This year’s collapse is considerably worse given that Buffalo’s trajectory was supposed to be trending upward under the new regime of general manager Jason Botterill and coach Phil Housley. They took over last spring after the Sabres underachieved in finishing 26th under GM Tim Murray and coach Dan Bylsma

“We have to evaluate everything, coaching staff, the players. What are they willing to change?” Housley said. “There comes a point in your career where you have to realize what’s important. Obviously, winning, what it takes to win, the commitment to win in this league. And that’s what we talk about change.”
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This is confusing to me. If teams like Edmonton and Buffalo and this years Red Wings are tanking, then why do players feel like O'Reilly? Don't they know whats going on and whats behind things?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the true meaning of Tanking, but I thought it meant deliberate losing to secure a better draft pick chance in the Draft.

Why doesn't the front office simply tell O'Reilly and the likes whats going on?

I believe the answer to be very hypocritical on both sides... the front oiffices and the players. I don't believe in Tanking and I'm not sold it even exist's. I think Edmonton just flat out sucked for all those seasons and deliberate tanking was just an excuse made up for the losing.

I, for the life of me, would never stand for 'Tanking' on my team or I'd rearrange a face or two, because its all about playing to win and giving 100% when your out there.

What the hell am I missing? Do owners, GM's and Coach's have a conspiracy of sorts in place to trick players into losing or mess with lineups to make winning more difficult? In any aspect of the game... whether it be front office, player or in my case a fan would I tolerate deliberate losing or diminishment of opportunities to win.

Seriously, someone help me under stand this... thanks.

 

Buffalo did not tank this year.

Buffalo is not a good team.

Huge difference.

They had essentially no secondary scoring; their bottom six resembled a decent AHL team.

They're snails on defense, and that hasn't worked for a long time in the NHL.

I thought that O'Reilly's and Eichel's exit interviews were an interesting study in contrast. ROR seems to have been trapped in the suck; and that makes him a part of the problem. As a de facto team leader, that's a huge problem.

Jack expressed nothing good looking back, but he expressed his commitment and his optimism that things will get better. He will wear the C next season - he gets the letter because it is obvious that he is the leader on this team. And, the team is in desperate need of a voice in the lockerroom that is the sanctioned team leader.

There will be plenty of time this offseason to outline why Jack has plausible reasons for optimism. But teams did not really tank this season; some just sucked. Some, worse than others

 

I think tanking is more of an idea among fans than reality to organizations. definitely not at the player's level anyway. I would think it would be a rallying point among players if they thought the team brass didnt have their backs, kinda like in the movie Slapshot. would do a number on the team's reputation that would hurt them moving forward. i think some team's just suck. the Oilers werent tanking, they just plain sucked. and still suck.
Sometimes GMs have been known to ice inferior lineups at the end of a season but thats a rare occasion. Penguins did it for Mario.

 

Tanking these days is done by sitting out top players the last 15 games due to an "apparent" injury. The leafs did this two years ago , their lineup was ahl the last month.

 

just funny

 

I'll one up you.

 

speaking of Flamenco dancing

 

Johnny was pissed!

 

Buffalo has built their team to beat the Leafs and no one else.

 

but when a once in a generational talent is there like Mario or McDavid as Matty said previously, I suspect teams were throwing in the towel early to acquire that draft pick.

the rules have changed now. If you finished with the worst record prior to the Patrick Kane - JVR draft, you got the pick. Then they added the worst 5 were in a lottery with ping pong balls and 5 balls for the worst team and 1 for the 5th worst overall etc. now it's changed again, so I still believe teams suck and tank for a top star like the young defensemen this year. or the Matthews/Laine draft.

 

I appreciate all of you for your input on Tanking. Tank you very much!

Seriously, I think I understand the idea a bit better and have some clarification and at the same time more questions, but I wont bore you.

It was interesting to hear Dan's take on the Sabres and Matty eluded to something I was thinking all along, but not sure of. Valuable input gents...

 

I think that's a simplistic Toronto-centric view.

When Darcy Regier was here the Sabres moves were all based on trying to beat Boston. Since then the team has just been a clusterfuck and bumblefuck of motion.

I think it's more apt to say that Toronto takes the Sabres for granted (after all, every game between them is a home crowd for them). I think that Toronto's complacency accounts for Buffalo's recent relative success. Otherwise, there is very little to account for the stunning W/L ratio between these two teams over the last 48 seasons.

My theory is that Buffalo is better. When it comes to hockey, Toronto is Buffalo's bitch.

 

Toronto knows they suck vs Buffalo. I don't think they are complacent. Maybe it gets to their heads. Crazy how the record could be so bad at Buffalo when it feels like a home game a ton of times.

 

Sheesh, Joe! Whatup? I rip on Toronto and you come back all un-offended and all. We gotta be careful, that kind of level headed response could stir up some real conversation.

Buffalo fans know they're making a deal with the devil, but they also know that they can practically recoup the cost for their entire season tickets by selling them to Leafs fans. That's why the stands are blue & white for every game between these two. I think the rivalry got off to a great start when the Sabres signed Punch Imlach to get them started.

Until recently, the Sabres had the 4th best overall record in the NHL since 1970. The Leafs did not. The first 40 years is relatively easy to explain why Buffalo has won so much. The last 7 years are a lot harder to explain - but I know that sometimes a team just owns another team. (Look at the Sabres vs. the Sharks.) But I think an argument is off-track any time it starts with "Buffalo is built to beat ___". Buffalo is not built to beat anyone, and the results prove my case.

 

The leafs and the sabres were only involved in one signifigant playoff series, that was the '99 conference semi-finals. Other than that, it's just been a geographical rivalry, sabre fans being outnumbered in their own rink.

In the 60s it was the habs.
In the 70s it was the flyers and isles.
In the 80s it was the blues, black hawks and north stars.
In the 90s it was the wings, sens and isles.
Millenium, the sens and bruins, also nobody, because they really were irrelevant.
The leafs really haven't done well in buffalo over the years. There could be an extra motivation from all the visiting fans that are in your building.

 

Some teams just have another teams number, regardless of record or success by one of the teams. Seems I can find this in all major sports. Anomaly, at the least.

 

I've appeared offended enough on the Eagles website mocking Denzel Ward to the Bills when my pick came up instead of Josh Allen. They hate Allen but think the pick needs to be made for need. LOL. Sheep much? Hate a guy but go back on it for need. lol. Plus they think CB isn't a need. They have White and... 2 questionable guys on 1-year deals...

LOL

 

Living in a town outside of buffalo has more advantages for a player than to live in toronto.
Housing is cheaper you get a much bigger property for much less.
Your take home pay is higher.
The media scrutiny isn't as intense.
I haven't heard too many players complain about playing in buffalo besides that incident with domenik hasek.

 

The sabres came right out of the gate with some good talent. They had the french connection, they went to the finals in their 4th season?
All the while the leafs had to put up with a nutjob owner in Harold Ballard. The 70s treated the leafs good though, three first round picks in the early 70s and they competed.
As the 80s rolled around, Ballard became more eratic and the leafs lost a decade. The sabres kept putting up good but not great teams as the scotty bowman era was a failure. The 90s were also good to the sabres with mogilny, peca and hasek.
The leafs made the CF 3 times in the 90s.

The sabres were pretty good team in the 2000s with ryan miller,connolly, briere while the leafs had another dark period under jfj and burke. Apparently nobody was notified of the salary cap.

The ship is sailing straight now.

 

Probably very healthy if a player vents his frustration when on a losing team. Anything else would be a red flag and show one being complacent and that's definitely not healthy.