Trying to keep it funny in here...I think SAS has finally realized Baker wont be the 1st pick...that only took 3 months so hes MIA
I agree, Dorsey came in with a wiped out slate and a dozen names of players that anyone would want to start a roster with..Nothing else..there wasn't anything left to purge. He also inherited the incumbent coaches except for Haley. This is a different situation than in the past, which is what I was eluding to. I believe Haslem has his guys in place and doesn't want to upset the apple cart every two years, because that doesn't gain you any semblance of balance within a franchise. It depends on your expectations...Haslem's expectations are the only ones that matter, not a Steelers fan that is talking on a Browns board about getting rid of a coach. I hate to keep mentioning it, I'm not calling you out beach. It's just a matter of fact that you have not even come close to experiencing the amount of ineptitude as I have over the last 19 years. No one from another team can pretend they understand that. Previous owners have tried to come up with a fast way of changing the franchise and it fails every time because no time is given for growth. Now, if Hue comes out and looks lost on Sundays, like I openly admit happened in the past with too much on his plate, then I would agree whole heartily with you...I just find it intrusive to be discussing a firing of a coach two weeks before the draft, before the season has even begun. It's a way to stir up shit. Come back in November if he hasn't grown and we can all talk about it. I'm not being rude, as a Steelers fan, the Tomlin coaching change came with very similar faces leading the charge... I was wrong, Tomlin was an outside hire, but he retained Dick Lebeau, and Lebeau's defensive coaching staff. He promoted within Bruce Arians, who had been with the Steelers for 3 years prior to Tomlin coming in. That wasn't a coaching turnover, it was One man hired because the previous one retired. The entire philosophy remained intact. Kevin Colbert had been in charge of personnel since 2000...and still is today.
All I did was disagree that if the Browns wanted to make a coaching change it doesn't mean the entire roster has to be turned upside down. This is becoming a pattern it appears. Disagree with anything Irish says and you are accused of shit stirring and having some ulterior motive.
The pattern he’s pointing to has a real threat to it. I agree that if Hue goes, the threat then is lessened, I’m more worried about if Haslam forces Dorsey to keep him. Will he accept that, or walk?
I have 19 years of proof that is what has happened...In most cases, a new coaching hire is then soon followed by a new GM hire, because if you are starting with a new coach, typically it takes a couple of years for that coach to be successful. If the coach isn't successful, then the guy who hired him is longing for the unemployed line as well. Dorsey will get a chance to replace Hue with his guy...but that will take a couple of years to implement his system, his coaches, etc...So we will be talking about the same exact issue two years after the hire...the players don't have time to become pros because they are in constant change. It is all entangled together. The players don't grow, the coaches fail, thus the man who hired them has failed....Try again, then repeat two years later...Give this REGIME a chance to get a sense of normalcy in the halls of Berea. THEN if Hue can't get them playoff wins, do something small to not cause many ripples.
If the GM hand picks a head coach and the fail together than they probably deserve to go but now you're projecting at least 3 years into the future. My comment was centered around the idea that a new head coach meant purging the roster and starting over in 2019 and I believe that is flawed thinking. And I offer up the Vikings, Rams, Eagles and Jaguars as proof. They had GMs in place and they brought in new coaches and had success fairly early. You can probably throw the 49ers in there too. Their arrow is pointing up.
Wow Irish is so difficult to talk w at times...one minute you say there is talent...well they are not replacing the Browns their replacing an inept HC that can’t win a challenge, doesn’t know when to go for 2 pts, supposedly has horrible practice plans and locker room atmosphere...if all true IF the Browns win some games it will b in spite of Hue not cause of him
It is just what I have seen repeatedly for 19 years beach..It isn't flawed thinking, it is my reality as a Browns fan. I am not suggesting to blow up the roster, I am stating the fact of what we have seen as an organization every two years for two decades. New coaches, typically, want their own players to hedge their career on. Regardless of whether you keep a handful of good players, it is inevitable that there is a major turnover in personnel. Hell, we just had it the past 3 years, Sashi completely removed every backup veteran on the team and Dorsey came in and replaced all the nonsensical backups with veterans. It is never-ending. Then you come on here and try to convince me that NEXT TIME it will be different. How about we just stick with a plan for 5 years, then if something needs tweaked, we tweak it. I am resigned to the fact if Hue Jackson looks totally inept as a HC after giving up OC duties, he needs to be replaced. I am not arguing that fact, my argument is that he DID give up OC duties in order to allow this team to grow into a cohesive unit. I expect him to grow as a HC because of this move. I am not into talking about replacing him before the freaking draft has even taken place, let alone the start of the 2018 season. That was my argument.
The problem is, that when you lay out a 5 yr plan to the owner, and he agrees to said plan, and said plan has not been deviated from, it still costs the GM his job in year 3. As a GM I would have no faith in the owner regardless of assurances. With that in mind, I would expect something bold from the Browns come draft day. JD has already breathed life into the team, but I'm expecting something else to send shock waves and jumpstart his tenure.
Well, we don't actually know the intricacies of the 5 year plan. The 5 year plan may very well have been for Sashi Brown to get as many pieces as possible over a two year span. We really don't know. There was no negative connotations coming out of Berea or from Sashi Brown himself. They thanked him for his tireless work and what he did to set this team up for success. I think he did his job, did it admirably. NOW, is the time for a football mind to step in and use those assets to build this team. I agree with you Dogside, I think we are all in for a couple of surprises on or before draft day. I don't think this will just be sit and make a pick..he will be active up and down the draft board.
Really is a bummer that injury will ruin him and he wasn't allowed to self-bust. Notice to John Dorsey, no such thing as a sure or safe (e.g., Sam Darnold) QB pick in the draft.
Do you want to know WHY I don't like Colin Cowherd? According to "what he is hearing", not what he is "mocking"...He thinks it is viable that the Patriots are singling in on #1, not #4 and that Cleveland is "fine" with any of the top 4 QBs.... He says the Patriots get #1 overall and select Sam Darnold as Brady's heir apparent The Browns recieve #23, #31, #43, #63 and 2019 First Round draft pick...and the Browns take the "left over QB" at #4 in Josh (edit)Rosen Allen...If we were going to screw us by stating the Browns would give up #1 overall...at least allow for Baker Mayfield to drop to #4. Say this were the case... #4 Josh Rosen Big arm (I can't bring myself to call him a QB) #23 Maurice Hurst DT #31 Mike Hughes CB #33 Connor Williams OT #35 Sony Michel RB #43 Ronnie Harrison FS #63 Ogbo Okoronkwo DE #64 DJ Chark WR There is the bounty of the first TWO rounds of the draft..While I say it is impressive... I would trade Hurst, Hughes, Harrison, Okoronkwo and a 24-32 pick in the 2019 draft For Baker Mayfield and Bradley Chubb
So... I do buy the discord rumors in New England - but the primary rumors have owner Bob Kraft and Tom Brady as the partners in the building... not Belichick and Kraft. Hard to believe that Kraft would green light a massive trade like this to get a replacement for his QB and give up all those assets that could be used to land another Super Bowl.
#MockDraftMonday Okay, Wednesday… I’ve been busy. MOCK DRAFT 2.0 Part 1 1.1 Cleveland Browns: Baker Mayfield, QB Oklahoma John Dorsey, Alonzo Highsmith, Eliot Wolf, Scot McCloughan... that many smart people in the room there's no way this pick is Josh Allen. There isn't a single quantitative or qualitative measure that Mayfield doesn't outshine the competition. This should be a no-brainer. Previously: no change 1.2 Buffalo Bills (f/New York Giants): Josh Rosen, QB UCLA Buffalo makes the splash move to get to #2 and leap division rival New York to grab the second best QB in the class. Again, it's amazing how after the Darnold/Allen garbage starts to clear out, the #1 and #2 quarterbacks are getting back into the discussion at the top. Buffalo's scheme could suit a number of throwers, but Rosen is the top talent from a fundamentals standpoint and can start right away - the other option is A.J. McCarron. New York would get #12, #22, #56, and #65 from Buffalo. Previously: Billy Price, OG + Maurice Hurst, DT (#21, #22 overall) 1.3 New York Jets (f/Indianapolis Colts): Sam Darnold, QB USC The Jets would lose out on their top choice (Rosen) and backup (Mayfield) but land a guy perhaps better suited for their situation in Darnold. They've got a guaranteed one year left in McCown and an unknown quantity in Bridgewater. Darnold has decent upside but will require some marinating off the field until that happens... with two incumbents ahead of him, he'd fare much better here than Cleveland or Buffalo. Previously: Josh Rosen, QB (#6 overall) 1.4 Cleveland Browns (f/Houston Texans): Bradley Chubb, DE N.C. State What if... the Allen stuff is just hype? He's *not* a good prospect and teams would be foolish to mortgage the future in order to move up and get him. Bad news there is the Browns don't have a trade market for him. Good news is they get their pick of premium players in the class. Dorsey was active in the offseason already trying to upgrade the defensive front. Chubb fills that need in a major way. He tested very well - especially with regards to explosiveness and speed. He was a productive 3-year starter and looks like the best all-around DE in the class. Previously: Minkah Fitzpatrick, CB/S 1.5 Denver Broncos: Saquon Barkley, RB Penn State Case Keenum isn't a sure thing, but he's light years better than Josh Allen and Elway has already had major misses on Osweiler and Lynch as prospects - both of whom were better prospects than Allen, too. Barkley is the top skill position player on the board and helps a major area of concern on the team. Previously: no change 1.6 Indianapolis Colts (f/New York Jets): Denzel Ward, CB Ohio State Ouch... their two primary targets (Chubb, Barkley) come off the board back-to-back. That leaves the Colts taking the top defender on the board. Indy's defense is garbage and no amount of average Andrew Luck is going to keep them out of the AFC South basement without an improvement here. Previously: Bradley Chubb (#3 overall) 1.7 Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Derwin James, FS Florida State Tampa really needs running back help but this might be too early for Guice. Instead, they opt for an all-around playmaker who instantly improves a below-average defense. Previously: Quenton Nelson, OG 1.8 Chicago Bears: Quenton Nelson, OG Notre Dame The Bears filled the depth chart with receivers in free agency, allowing them to go the route of BPA. They already have a potent rushing attack, despite well-below average talent at the interior of the line. Nelson is the top offensive lineman in the class and some (Charlie Casserly) have said the best overall OL prospect since 2000. While that's definitely draft season hyperbole, he's still a tremendous talent and should help Trubisky's development in Year 2. Previously: Calvin Ridley, WR 1.9 San Francisco 49ers: Tremaine Edmunds, LB Virginia Tech Reuben Foster was a homerun... until he wasn't. Eli Harold and Malcolm Smith are dangerously below-average. Edmunds is a freak athlete who'll only get better. They simply do not make humans like this very often and his flexibility to play any position in San Fran's lineup should get him on the field immediately where he projects as a multiple All Pro. Previously: no change 1.10 New England Patriots (f/Oakland Raiders): Lamar Jackson, QB/WR Louisville Imagine the fire drill on ESPN/NFLN when the logo changes from a Raider to a Patriot on draft night. There's enough smoke around the New England fires that I'm willing to bite. There's a rift happening/happened that is only going to continue to grow. This could very well be Brady's last season. This would be a great fit as Belichick and McDaniels could scheme around Jackson long-term while getting him WR or special package work short-term. Miami, sitting at #11 could be interested. Yes, I know I said I don't buy them moving up for a QB, but if it does happen, getting a guy like Jackson who can impact the game with Brady rather than after Brady only would make the most sense. Oakland gets #23, #31. New England would also get #110. Previously: Mason Rudolph (#31 overall) 1.11 Miami Dolphins: Roquan Smith, LB Georgia Miami just watched five quarterbacks drop off the board, leaving them with Lamar Jackson, who's a more athletic version of Ryan Tannehill that they're trying to move on from. They have a glaring weakness at linebacker and Smith is talented and versatile enough to help fix that. Making a move to draft Vea or Hurst would make sense too, as they just cut ties with Ndamokung Suh. Previously: Derrius Guice, RB 1.12 New York Giants (f/Cincinnati Bengals via Buffalo): Harold Landry, DE Boston College His 2017 tape was garbage, but Lanrdy was a Top 5 preseason pick and for good reason - he dominated in 2016. New York was linked closely to Chubb (while staying at #2) but I think Landry is a better pass rusher than Chubb is. While he's a bit undersized for a down-lineman, the Giants have made it work in the past and talent is still talent. Previously: Sam Darnold (#2 overall) 1.13 Washington Redskins: Vita Vea, DT Washington Unusual to see nose tackles go this highly, but Danny Shelton did it just three seasons ago so it's possible. I'm not as big on Vea as it seems the rest of the NFL world is. If he can play up to his ability, this could be a defense-changing guy who helps boost them in a suddenly very tough division. Previously: Courtland Sutton, WR 1.14 Green Bay Packers: Minkah Fitzpatrick, CB/S Alabama A big fall for a guy once in the discussion for #4 overall, but there are rumors of such a drop coming. We saw safeties pushed down the board in last years' draft, including Malik Hooker down all the way to #13 overall. Fitzpatrick isn't the same type of safety as Hooker and his upside at cornerback may be limited (best-suited in the slot). However, he's still a top-notch leader that teams like Green Bay flock to Previously: Denzel Ward, CB 1.15 Arizona Cardinals: Josh Allen, QB Wyoming First round QBs with similar completion percentage and YPA as Allen - Patrick Ramsey, Jake Locker, and Kyle Boller... none were Top 5 kind of guys. I am choosing to believe the Allen hype is media-driven and that most GMs and teams are smart enough to avoid him. Someone will inevitably take him and it seems hard to believe a team with as bad a situation in their QB room as Arizona (arguably, the worst in the NFL right now) would pass on him. I think this makes more sense if Arians were in town, but nonetheless, there you go Josh Allen honks. Previously: Connor Williams, OT 1.16 Baltimore Ravens: Calvin Ridley, WR Alabama So, so obvious. Ozzie Newsome can't help but think of his Alma mater in his last professional draft. Thankfully, Ridley also upgrades a very weak position on the team. Ridley comes with NFL-ready traits that should appeal to a team like Baltimore that hasn't had a decent receiving option since Steve Smith Sr. retired. Previously: James Washington, WR
Part 2 1.16 Baltimore Ravens: Calvin Ridley, WR Alabama So, so obvious. Ozzie Newsome can't help but think of his Alma mater in his last professional draft. Thankfully, Ridley also upgrades a very weak position on the team. Ridley comes with NFL-ready traits that should appeal to a team like Baltimore that hasn't had a decent receiving option since Steve Smith Sr. retired. Previously: James Washington, WR 1.17 Los Angeles Chargers: Leighton Vander Esch, LB Boise State They will have to choose whether they go all-in with Rivers or plan for the future. After an awful start in 2017, they finished incredibly strong and just barely missed the playoffs. The division is a mess and after trading away Alex Smith, the Chargers should be the favorites to win it. Improving the linebacker corp is a must as they were all below average last season. Vander Esch is an athletically-gifted player but needs to work on recognition and play development before becoming a full-time starter. Previously: Lamar Jackson, QB 1.18 Seattle Seahawks: Josh Jackson, CB Iowa Incredibly difficult to forecast what this team will do since they dismantled the roster, questioned the return of key players, and have yet to produce an NFL line for one of the league's best, young quarterbacks (Russell Wilson will be playing his seven NFL season this year... wow). Josh Jackson has one spectacular year so despite an average Combine, he still is solidly in the discussion for R1 cornerback. His balls skills were terrific playing off, which has led some to suggest he'd be a better safety - both positions could be of concern to Seattle this season. Previously: Derwin James, FS 1.19 Dallas Cowboys: Courtland Sutton, WR Southern Methodist Dallas stays in its own backyard and picks up a big-bodied, horizontal threat receiver in Sutton. There's enough potential issues around Bryant's status with the team and they really lack other quality receiving options. Sutton may be a bit of a "project", but if Elliott stays clean and Dak regains his 2016 form, they should be able to ease in the big target to that offense. Previously: Josh Jackson, CB 1.20 Detroit Lions: Maurice Hurst, DT Michigan Hurst is a force on the interior and Detroit could use an upgrade. Some teams, I'm sure, will be scared off by his medical red flag and that's probably enough to keep him out of the Top 10 (he's an immense talent, for sure). This is a team that was dominant having Suh in their lineup and has been trying to re-create that magic for a while now. Previously: Vita Vea, DT 1.21 Cincinnati Bengals (f/Buffalo Bills): Will Hernandez, OG UTEP To say they didn't adequately plan for the departure of Kevin Zeitler and Andrew Whitworth in free agency last offseason is an understatement. That offensive line was abysmal and led to them being one of the worst rushing offenses in the NFL while also allowing Andy Dalton to be sacked on 7.3% of all dropbacks (second-highest career mark). I expect them to go offensive line here, so the other option is Orlando Brown Jr., which also reeks of Mike Brown. Previously: Orlando Brown Jr., OT (#12 overall) 1.22 New York Giants (f/Kansas City Chiefs via Buffalo): Derrius Guice, RB Louisiana State If not for the Browns commanding the NFL Draft, the Giants would be heralded as the big winners of the night. Moving back and still getting the better pure pass rusher, as well as arguably a better all around running back than Barkley (Chubb/Barkley being the two most popular non-QB picks) is hitting a major home run. They will have fixed two major holes, as well as stocking up on more picks and they've not had to reach on a quarterback that they may not otherwise love. Previously: no pick (trade scenario) 1.23 Oakland Raiders (f/Los Angeles Rams via New England): Rashaan Evans, LB Alabama With Gruden in charge, two things are becoming clear: football-first guys only and back-to-basics approach. Evans fills both bills as he comes pre-packaged from Saban as an NFL ready guy who receives high marks for his football IQ and work ethic. Evans is a rangy linebacker required for the new NFL, so if Gruden hasn't adopted that mindset yet, this could end up not being the pick. Previously: Roquan Smith, LB 1.24 Carolina Panthers: D.J. Moore, WR Maryland Moore is gaining a ton of traction in the lead up to the draft and Carolina may see a younger Steve Smith to upgrade their passing attack - which is severely lacking outside of RB and TE. Smith is a physical presence with the football and tested through the roof at the Combine. Sure, he needs some polish, but so do most (all) rookie wide receivers. Previously: Harold Landry, DE 1.25 Tennessee Titans: Billy Price, OC/OG Ohio State Wide receiver is their biggest problem, but with three big ones already off the board in a so-so class, a fourth might be a stretch. Price and help upgrade the interior of the line where they're solid, but not special. Previously: Rashaan Evans, LB 1.26 Atlanta Falcons: Taven Bryan, DT Florida Bryan is a tough prospect to pin down - some think he's the top interior lineman while others think he's a later round pick. Atlanta has pending free agents all along their defensive line and could use a back fill as this is a team with few needs who's likely drafting with a eye towards the future. Previously: no change 1.27 New Orleans Saints: Mike Gesicki, TE Penn State Helped out by fantastic athletic testing, Gesicki could be the first tight end off the board and New Orleans makes a lot of sense. They already have an elite offense and their defense caught up in a major way. A moveable tight end could be the missing piece (al la Jimmy Graham) to elevate Brees back to another Super Bowl. Previously: Marcus Davenport, DE 1.28 Pittsburgh Steelers: Mason Rudolph, QB Oklahoma State The Steelers biggest needs are at center (Pouncey has never been good, don't buy it), free safety, and tight end. None of those are great fits here. As such, they opt to select an heir apparent for Ben Roethsliberger. Rudolph has the same statuesque size of Ben and while so much of his production came from OSU scheming around his deficiencies, he'd have time to work with NFL coaches before being asked to take over the team. Previously: Josh Allen, QB 1.29 Jacksonville Jaguars: D.J. Chark, WR Louisiana State This team badly needs help at the receiver position so while this may be a stretch now, Chark has the size and athletic profile to become a dominant #1 guy down the road. I think ideally they'd take a quarterback here since Bortles is still such a question mark, but we'd be digging into the tier-three dudes at this point. Previously: Auden Tate, WR 1.30 Minnesota Vikings: Connor Williams, OT/OG Texas Offensive line. Fill in the name later. Some folks believe Williams will have to move to guard due to his shorter arms - that's fine because Minnesota needs help both places on the left side. Williams' pass pro is textbook and I think he'll have a very good career as a tackle when all is said and done. Previously: Mike McGlinchey, OT 1.31 Oakland Raiders (f/New England Patriots): Mike McGlinchey, OT Notre Dame Donald Penn is bad and is responsible for not one, but two major injuries to their prized quarterback. Upgrading the left tackle spot much be a priority and this is one of those "traditional football moves" that we should probably expect to see more of from Gruden going forward. He's not flashy, but McGlinchey could be the safest tackle in the class. Previously: no pick (trade scenario) 1.32 Cleveland Browns (f/Philadelphia Eagles): Jaire Alexander, CB Louisville Browns could move back into the first round to get a fifth year option on a guy they're targeting. Browns can make this happen while still holding onto #33 as well by trading #35, #150, and #188. Ultimately, the extra year is more valuable on a cornerback which carries a premium price tag in the NFL. Alexander is an instinctive corner with an alpha mentality and great physical testing. He should compete for playing time early where Jamar Taylor is rumored to be on the outs and E.J. Gaines is on a one-year deal. Previously: no pick (trade scenario)
Rounding Out the Browns' Draft 2.33 Jamarco Jones, OT Ohio State Jones isn't flashy but he's been solid for the Buckeyes. He has an enormous wingspan and his film shows a capable NFL starter for a decade. He's got huge shoes to fill in Joe Thomas' spot, but we can't think of him replacing Joe... just holding down the LT spot for the team, which remains a glaring weakness. Having some competition at the position will be good for all the candidates to take the job and even if he doesn't' start right away, gives the Browns some comfort level in case of injury or in-game struggles as the season goes on. 2.64 (f/Philadelphia): Nathan Shepherd, DT Fort Hays State Classic "football guy watching film" pick where Shepherd flashes on tape against lesser competition. He's a physical freak at the position and could flex to the outside, depending on sub package. Shepherd is one of those guy's who's shooting up draft boards right now and while #64 may seem high, similar to 2017, Larry Ogunjobi shot up boards and eventually went #65 to Cleveland. There are a lot of similarities in that both are physical dominant and once the nuances of the game are learned, could both be multiple Pro Bowl-type players. 4.114 (f/Green Bay): Anthony Miller, WR Memphis Productive, competitive, explosive... there's a lot to like about Miller. He's definitely one of the "my guys" in this draft (basically, everyone on this list is) and if the Browns are lucky enough to have a shot at him in the fourth, they ought to take it. While on paper wide receiver isn't a massive need anymore, an upgrade over Coleman could be made or insurance against a misstep by Gordon would be welcomed. Miller is an aggressive catcher who tracks the ball exceptionally well and has that similar "chip-on-the-shoulder" story as Mayfield - walk-on talent who earned the job and dominated. 6.175: Jalen Samuels, RB N.C. State Samuels doesn't have a true position (he was listed as an h-back) but he can catch, run, and return kicks. Listed as a tight end, he looks more the part of a fullback (5'11" 225 pounds). With the Browns having two solid starters at both the running back (Hyde, Johnson Jr.) and tight end (Njoku, DeValve) spots, a guy with the ability to affect the game in a number of ways could appeal to them. A lack of true position will likely push him down boards (I reached in the Fan Speak simulation) but he's a hybrid talent I really like.
