Ravens offseason and draft thread

Draft Anthony Miller in the 2nd round. Problem solved.

 

The Cap has been an issue ever since the Super Bowl season. That is why they have settled with old washed up veterans in key spots while losing young talent every season to the point where the depth of the team has been decimated. I was ok with the team drafting defense heavy this past year because, lets be real here, the defense was depth deprived big time. The offense has big issues with pass catchers but every other spot has been decent. My problem with the offense is why our WR and TE can't seem to get open at any time? Is that a talent issue or is that an offense scheme issue? I don't really know which but i do know that this team has huge issues developing any WR at any time.

As for Joe, he will never be a Top 10 QB, we all know this. He had an awesome couple of years there which culminated with the 2012 Super Bowl win which we will all forever remember. The cap mechanics of QB's are seriously out of whack now unfortunately, when mediocre QB's like Tannehill and other mid tier guys are getting 20 mil plus a year. Guys that can't win in the playoffs or rarely get their team to the playoffs as well. I believe that Joe will restructure that deal of his after this year and if he is smart, he will take much less money ala Brady if he wants to get back to the playoffs and be successful.

 

I agree. There are fans that think that RG3 was brought in (and want to see) RG3 replace Flacco. No doubt he'll do his best, but if they wanted to get rid of Joe they'd have traded him to a QB needy team and picked up Keenum, Foles or Cousins at a better contract.

Joe is one of the best QBs in play off history. However he's not elite. Is he overpaid? In general, yes, bit not the way that QBs are compensated. Had a 2012 like his previous seasons we'd probably not be complaining about his contract and that he has never brought home a Lombardi.

When they strike the right balance of talent and depth under the cap they'll be back to annual playoff contention.

 

This is an interesting concept that I can't necessarily disagree with. A few years back, I remember a lot of "draft experts", both professionally and on various message boards, yapping about how Dallas drafted their Center, I think Frederick is his name, two rounds earlier than they could have gotten him (they got him in the 1st, many figured he'd be there in the 3rd).

I'm no expert on grading the center position, I do know Dallas has had one of the best o-lines the last few years and he hasn't missed a single start in his 5 year career. So since they clearly got the guy they wanted, I wonder if people still call it a reach?

 

Here's the thing. We don't know where he was ranked on their draft board or even how they rank their draft board. Do they combine need + BPA? Maybe that C was ranked higher, or just as high, on their board as anyone who was left. We don't know.

Every team is different. Most draft "experts" with their "reaches" and so on are only seeing one thing. What does the team need immediately and which sexy players from the big schools will fill that need? Kiper and Mayock at least put some thought and analysis into their predictions.

The ravens need receivers. We all know that. But, if they are going after receivers in FA, then maybe they don't value the receivers in the draft as highly as the "experts" do. Even Kiper and Mayock say that the biggest value of WR's is in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Signing Crabtree and Brown, and hopefully Snead, would just about allow the Ravens to focus on other areas of need and BPA, such as RT, C, ILB, and TE (IMHO, that's the order of need) in the 1st 2 rounds. None of the top receivers in the draft are "burners", so the Ravens will either have to find one later in the draft, sign an under-the-radar FA, or hope and pray that both Brown and Perriman can stay healthy.

Last year, most said that Humphrey was a reach. But, he was not only the top rated player on the Ravens board at 16, but also a position of need (although i still wanted OJ Howard). It worked out pretty good. As far as Bowser, Williams, and Wormly are concerned, I'm keeping an open mind. I do believe that Pees was a big factor in so many rookies and 1st year players, including FA's, not performing well. Look at Weddle. His first year in Pees' system and many fans thought he was done. His second season he made it to the Pro Bowl. I have high hopes for Jefferson, Bowser, Wormly, & Henry and think that Humphrey will become a star.

 

In terms of Frederick, even the Dallas media thought that pick was a huge reach. He seemed to be lower on everybody's draft board except the Cowboys. Which is why I agree with Kid's post, and yours btw, on how can players be called a reach. Especially that early.

People rate good and bad draft picks based on their opinion. You mentioned Humphrey and Howard for Baltimore. I remember many Ravens fans hating the Humphrey pick, and calling it a reach, because they wanted Howard so much (not saying you did this). Fast forward a year, and most are now saying Humphrey was a good pick. Tim Williams was said to be a steal in the third but a year later, not so much. The whole concept of calling a pick a reach, steal, great pick, bad pick, etc the year that draft occurred is just stupid to me. Antonio Brown or Tom Brady going in the first round of their respective drafts would have been considered a monumental reach at the time. But with hindsight, they are huge steals

 

The concepts of what BPA and "A Reach" are vary and is subject to the eye of the beholder. Based on the Ravens draft modality they usually prefer to use rounds 1 & 2 to select the best athlete or football player regardless of need. If BPA and need happen to coincide with 1st and 2nd round picks then all the better. Picks like CJ Mosely, Ronnie Stanley and Marlon Humphrey were all positions of need that were arguably all the best players available without reaching.

There are dozens of scenarios to dissect over the history their drafts to make cases for and against and that can take all day. If we look at just those "hits" I mentioned above, a "reach" for just about anyone else in 2017 would've been a waste if Humphrey wasn't selected.

In 2016, we could make an assumption that a reach for WR Mike Thomas could've made sense given his performances. And of course that could've been accomplished with a trade back in which we are able to land any combination of Thomas and perhaps Taylor Decker, Germain Ifedi, Myles Jack, Sterling Sheppard, Reggie Ragland, and Noah Spence instead of Correa.

In 2015, it was the rare offensive year taking Perriman and Maxx Williams in rds 1 & 2. Perriman was a physical specimen with NFL bloodlines and freakish speed so BPA and need seemed to be perfect here except it wasn't. WIlliams is close to being the same type of bust. But two other physical freaks we passed on Safety Landon Collins and Byron Jones. Collins was a steal in the 2nd and the Ravens needed a safety at the time. Jones was a reach but at least a solid 2nd round talent and in a position of lesser need. They obviously whiffed this year and their strategy backfired.

In 2014, we desperately needed an ILB and Mosley's pick was a hit. So was 2nd rd pick Jernigan. I'd never advocate missing out on a top 10 pick talent that miraculously fell the Ravens, but they could've traded back on Jernigan who they ended up trading for a 6th rd pick for other 2nd rd picks that they needed and "missed" on like Jarvis DeVante Adams, Jarvis Landry and Allen Hurns. Jernigan too was a first rd talent that fell the the Ravens, but given the other obvious need at WR, who was available, and what they ended up doing with Timmy makes his pick more of a "push" than a hit. I will be the first to say that they may have ended up mediocre talents in our system as WRs tend to do, but we'll never know.

So "a reach" is awfully subjective and can only really be called as much if:
1) he could've been drafted later in another round or with a possible trade back.
2) his performance wasn't worth the pick in which he was selected. BPA, too, we're finding can also be fairly subjective.

 

I'm going to say this right here. Maxx Williams will not end up being a bust. Like Perriman, he's been injured since he was drafted. He even had knee surgery that had never before been performed on a football player, knowing full well if it didn't work, his career would be over. He might not be the next Gronk (as some of his pre-draft analysis called him), but I think that this year, he will become the all-around, all-purpose TE that is needed. A good blocker (which he wasn't when he came out of college) and he will surprise most of you with his receiving ability. The surgery has probably robbed him of some of his speed, so he probably won't be the down field threat that was imagined when he was drafted.

There. I said. I called it. And I can't wait to say, "I told you so."

 

I'm not as disappointed yet in Williams as Perriman (and technically Perriman has one more year to prove himself too) but I hope you;re right and my disappointment thus far is gets reversed.

 

I need a Ravens guy for the Official Mock starting on the 11th. We sent #1 an email earlier but no response. So can one of you do us a solid and be the Ravens?

 

I get to say "I told you so" with Tim Williams. He could still be a decent pass rusher, but that is about it. A 3rd down and 15+ yards for a 1st down pass rusher. The extra 5 yards is just in case the offense calls a run play to his side, they can still get him beyond the 10 yard marker.

 

I'm a sucker for a 1st step.

 

Seriously I need one. lol

 

Sorry Joe, if I was on more often I'd do it. I felt bad the last time I volunteered for one and missed almost every round

 

I think we need to hold off on the pats on the back just yet. I think Dean Pees had a lot to do with the under-development of Williams. Also, just because we have had success with other rookie pass rushers does not mean they are a bust if they don't produce in their first season. We have a plethora of good young talent and he could still be very good yet. I don't think we should be throwing the baby out with the bath water on this one until he gets another season under his belt and we can see what he has to offer.

 

It's waaaaaaaay to early to throw the towel in on Tim Williams. He was a "steal" pick in the 4th and was once thought to be a top second round talent. It was his marijuana issues that caused him to fall a bit. Bailing on him now would be like selling your Hellcat because it had a slight knock in the engine. Fix it and see it it improves.

 

@Tenacious Faulk do you want to mock the Ravens?

 

Personally, I'm not saying Williams is a bust. I am, however, saying his rookie season didn't give off the impression of a team getting a "steal" in the 3rd. Wasn't a direct target comment to Williams, just an example of the whole "calling players a bust or a steal after the draft doesn't really make sense" argument

 

Not really pointing a finger on this, but I've seen/heard other comments about Williams being a bust elsewhere. Just pointing out that in Perriman's case he's had three years as a 1st rd pick to live up to expectations and outside of his rookie season he's failed. The bust label on Perriman is more warranted at this time than on Williams who has just one year in and is a 3rd selection. It can be argued that both players were misused/mis-trained by their coordinators and coaches. However, a professional with the desire to compete and win will find a way in 3 years to get better, not worse. AB vs Perriman is an immediate comparison of what desire work ethic means over raw talent. Williams, who is touted as a "sack artist" notched ZERO sacks and like 12 tackles. But I'm willing to believe that Pees' rotational defensive front didn't do him any favors.