having a howitzer for an arm is a nice attribute, but far from the #1 priority. a choice like that makes me think we don't know how to judge QBs, and thus default to "he has a great arm". What's in his head, what's in his character, has he shown growth, how accurate is he, what's D recognition like..... are all part of the equation. We really don't need to repeat the DA or Weeden experiment again, and thus far our QB development has burned through both draft picks with no improvement noted for either guy. I certainly hope we have someone in the organization who can go a little deeper in evaluating QBs, than arm strength. I get that they are "planning" on the rookie sitting and learning, with Tyrod handling the "doing" this year, but that gives me no confidence in the coaching staff to make something a rookie in need of "a lot of development". Give me a guy who's shown he "gets it", who needs seasoning, and I'm good. Not convinced Allen is that guy. All that said, if he wears the Brown and Orange, I'll be in his corner, but he wouldn't be my first choice, and we actually have the first choice.
Measured 6 foot 3/8 at Senior Bowl, 6 foot 5/8 at the Combine. Hands got smaller and he got taller in Indy.
I've yet to see a compelling case for him. From a measurables perspective, he's far from a Daunte Culpepper. His broad jump was nice (119") but everything else was just all right. I've *never* been a guy who prioritizes the "prototype", so his 6'5" and 237 measurements is not important to me nor something that would sway my opinion of him. Statistically, he's rotten. His production analytics profile projects him out of the NFL within a few seasons and the only comps in the NFL were guys like Derek Anderson. People want to make him into the next Carson Wentz, but Wentz was a much better college player. From a projection standpoint, the list of "talented but a project" is extraordinarily long. The list of guys who've put it all together from that list is down to maybe one or two names. And I'm sorry, but as of right now, Hue Jackson is the primary quarterbacks coach on this team and we just saw him *ruin* a superior prospect in DeShone Kizer. Most people rate Allen as the fourth guy in the "Big 4" behind Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield. You're asking a fanbase who's just gone through 1-31 to put its faith in a guy who looks terrible in positional drills, exhibits amateurish accuracy, and who went 16-9 as a starter while failing to complete 57% of his passes and, oh by the way, his throwing shoulder has had *multiple* surgeries on it. Sorry, bud... I just don't have any openness left.
I also wonder how far apart we our on our opinion of Allen. I view him as a *MASSIVE* project. With Tyrod effectively on a one-year deal (potentially tag-able and we can retain him for 2019), how long until a guy like Allen is ready to start? One season? Two?
It's a Pro Day. There's only been one bad one in the history of them (Teddy Bridgewater). If he passes a QB-friendly, scripted routine - even with inclement weather - okay. He should have. Now... what will the media do? Blow it up to a Herculean effort and anoint him as Andrew Luck 2.0. Probably.
I believe he is in a win win situation...he throws bad....weather....he throws great wow he just secured #1 status
Open for business...{meaning} Blow my socks off or we are staying put NO...{meaning} Not serious about moving up, if you were, you would blow my socks off There inlies the conundrum I believe...Your two personnel guys love one QB, but does the coaching staff share the love? If they don't then, one of the two sides jobs are on the line if they take him...how apt are the coaches to get a draft pick ready if they aren't in love with him? Tyrod may get everything they have and the rookie be left to fend for himself...wasted pick... I certainly hope this isn't the case. I personally hope everyone is on the same page and I personally hope that page is Mayfield. BUT, if the coaches aren't 100%, then I hope he goes somewhere he is wanted. I would rather take a guard #1 overall, than a QB the coaching staff doesn't want.
If it is, then before the 2nd round begins, the front office better have a contract extension signed by Tyrod!
In regards to Allen, don't forget the tidbit that the offense avg less than 3.0 ypc but for some reason still insisted on incessantly pounding the rock (the Anti-Hue) out of what appeared lack of trust for the QB against a bevy of future insurance salesmen, not NFL players.
Ok, let's play out this scenario... IF, the rookie prospect QB situation is so bleak that the powers that be can't even come to an agreement on who EVERYONE wants..then that is a good indication that they shouldn't take one #1 overall. A QB debate, should give you a clear decision of who the first pick of the draft should be. If it is debated over and over and the arguments on two (possibly three) different prospects cannot "move the earth", why take one at all? The old adage is, if you have 3 players that are equal, then you don't really have a player at all...isn't that right? One should ultimately come out as the best prospect. So, if that is the case...what would it take you all to move out of #1? For me, I have my clear cut guy...It's Mayfield and it isn't close, so I have to be blown away with an offer that would overcome the potential I see in Mayfield. That said, everyone has a price...and in our case, we also have the #4 overall pick which could STILL give me Mayfield. So, this is my breaking point in an offer... #12, #22, #53, #56, 2019 first round pick, 2020 second round pick Does it come close on the trade value chart...no it doesn't...and for ME PERSONALLY to trade the pick, it won't come close. If the Bills feel that adamant about a certain player, they will pay or they take a chance on not getting him. THAT above could help this team get to a Super Bowl with Tyrod Taylor at the helm...it could also bust out completely if we don't get Mayfield at #4 or if they miss on nearly every pick from the trade, obviously...but I'd take my chances with something like that offer. Otherwise, I would personally take Mayfield...and there will be 85% of everyone in the football universe that would argue against my pick, even the ones arguing against the trade proposed...knowing that would be my pick.
There are two sides to the "lack of talent on his team" rule...yes, he CHOSE to play on a team with less talent...who also play against opponents with less talent... Wentz made HIS lessor talent better against the opponents lessor talent, Allen has not...Rosen has not...
Counter-point... do you really want Hue Jackson working with Baker Mayfield? I believe John Dorsey has to do what's best for him and his front office. He's got a pretty easy argument to make if Mayfield struggles (assuming he sees action early). "What did you guys expect? This guy (Hue) ruined DeShone Kizer. He ruined Cody Kessler. He went 1-31!" That's not a hard sell. Does John Dorsey think Hue Jackson is going to be around for multiple seasons? How many wins brings Hue back? Are you, as the GM, going to put your neck on the line and draft a QB for the guy who has gone 1-31, ruined two young player's careers, and should have been canned in the offseason? Dorsey also has probably at least been a casual observer to the media manipulation and lie-factory that Hue and his surrogates have become. If Hue comes out today and says he loves Sam Darnold, that will change to Josh Rosen or Baker Mayfield by 2019 - whichever one(s) are having better careers. No, I think Dorsey needs to do what's best for his job security and what he thinks is best for the team, regardless of the coach.
Wyoming wins (2017): Gardner-Webb, Hawaii, Texas State, Utah State, New Mexico, Colorado State, Air Force, Central Michigan Wyoming losses (2017): Iowa, Oregon, Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State Of those wins, only Central Michigan (neutral bowl game) stands out as a solid victory.
My hope is that this is a moot point... Hue Jackson, with the hiring of Todd Haley, for all intent and purpose, should be far removed from the player development phase of coaching. He has far more pressing things to figure out before game one...like how and where to store a red flag on game day for easy removal. Trying to understand game situations better for timing of using your 3 timeouts...etc... Todd Haley and Ken Zampese should have a LOT more input on who the QB pick should be and full control over that players development in 2018. Well, that depends on the answer to the first statement above. I am sure Haslem has given order to who is doing what, even on the coaching staff. I think you are giving Hue way too much authority over such matters... In the end, I don't give a damn who, what or why it takes to get a competent QB. What I want to know is 2 things: 1) WHO is the consensus choice for QB, not who Dorsey wants, and is thrust upon a coaching staff...because frankly, if this staff doesn't want said QB, the next set of coaches could feel the very same way about him. 2) Is the choice one that the staff feels can be put into a position to be ready to be an NFL starter by the start of the 2019 season? a)If that is a, we don't know, we will have to wait and see...then they didn't do their due diligence on what is needed to fix what ever is keeping him from being the 2018 starter. In which case we are screwed. b) If the answer is, no, we feel what we need to work on has more of a 2020 time frame...then 1) Is he really 2018 draft #1 overall material? and 2) Is there a plan in place for Tyrod Taylor to be under contract for 2019...BEFORE the 2018 season begins? I will say this...If if either a) OR b) are the answer...Then I don't want a QB taken in the first round of this draft. I want to give Tyrod Taylor every available asset to provide this team with a chance to win on Sundays. I am not throwing a dart at a prospect for the #1 overall pick unless it is all hands on deck, front office, coaching staff and ownership...to getting him 100% opportunity to be ready to play in the 2019 season opener. I can't count on Tyrod Taylor holding down the fort for a kid that we project to take 2+ years to groom. I want a player in the top 4 picks to be ready to help this team within one season of pruning and getting him ready to be a starter. If they can't come up with an OBVIOUS consensus, then there isn't a player worthy of taking at those picks and plan B should be implemented, take the best overall talented player on the draft board at each pick...OR if there is a GREAT offer to move down, so be it...utilize that option at your discretion.
I, absolutely disagree with the idea of not taking a QB at #1. If they can't / won't agree on who that guy is, then we have a problem bigger than not having a QB. No one wants to be the #1 pick again. I assume everyone agrees on that, at least. So when do you think we'd be in a better position to take our guy? Picks are nice, but damn it we "need" to demand consensus and commitment to a QB in this draft. Frankly, if after that you want to trade #4 to build some picks up for this year and beyond, OK, but get the QB. There is plenty of leverage at #4, and if NY at #2 doesn't go QB, there will be teams who want one of the 2 QBs not yet drafted, so keep the lines open, and if Buffalo wants to get involved, cool. NY will be a big question mark, as the team's commitment to Eli has an expiration date, and they could go QB, but could also go Barkley, or even the highly rated G, Quentin Nelson, I think he is. As for me I'm for either Mayfield or Darnold. I don't like Allen's rawness, and I'm suspicious of Rosen's mental toughness, likeability, and his shoulder issues, which is also an issue with Allen (shoulder).Darnold's ball security is suspect, but I think coachable, and Mayfield's height still concerns me a little. Probably more so, how the Browns percieve Mayfield's height and bravado. In other words does he represent too much risk for a franchise who desperately needs to "hit" this time, without fail. I have to admit Darnold's size, and overall abilities, beyond security are attractive, and I could be pretty comfortable with him learning ball security from Taylor. I don't feel you can coach a guy up to be a lot more accurate, or to learn how to lead and be a teammate, so it's either Mayfield or Darnold for me. Just don't "take a pass" on the chance to pick the best QB, when you get what I certainly hope is our last chance to have that luxury, for a boatload of picks. That was Sashi's gig, and he's gone because of it. I am 100% convinced that Dorsey won't be sitting there explaining why he didn't think "any" of the QBs available was worthy of the #1 pick. It's job 1.
I'm not in the court of not wanting a QB...I am saying, if they can't come to a consensus on who should be the QB, then there shouldn't be one taken at #1. Here's the thing. Every QB in this draft has a lot of question marks attached to them. EVERY ONE OF THEM. There inlies the issue. Standing on their own, there isn't a QB that ranks in the top 5 overall picks regardless of position. Many have them outside the top 10. I will say Mayfield is the only QB I have ranked in the top 10 and he certainly isn't #1 overall in my book either. I personally still want him at #1 overall, because I have come to a clear decision that he is the undisputed top choice in this draft....However there are so many that disagree with me..it almost makes me question what I am even seeing. Tim makes a great case with his grading system, but when I watch film of all of these QBs, man, to me it isn't even close. THEN, when you look up the stats and look at the overall success, the opponents..that information only backs up what I am seeing on tape. So, for me...if this regime comes up with any other name than Baker Mayfield, I would rather not take a QB #1 overall in this draft. I will back whomever the pick is, but I don't have a lot of confidence that he will ultimately succeed in being the type of player that can "lead" us to a Super Bowl. Darnold is my next closest, and he makes SAS vomit...so you see, if these guys are so different in so many peoples eyes...each and every one of them carries a huge risk of failure... All the while there are four guys who are unanimously agreed upon as being players that will surely make a team better immediately. Saquon Barkley Bradley Chubb Minkah Fitzpatrick Quentin Nelson It would take something catastrophic that no one can see coming to not be a better team with two out of those four players...now, eliminate Nelson, since we already have (2) top ten guards on the team signed through 2020. In the end, I agree 100% we need a QB to succeed. I would love to see them in 100% agreement on who that should be..if they are, then that is great, take him #1 overall and move on..If there is any disagreement down to the wire, then bypass them all because there are too many warts on all of them to agree on one. We aren't moving forward if they make the wrong choice at QB. I'm not wanting to trade for the sake of getting more picks..I want the best talent available to start building this team into a championship caliber team. If we take a QB at #1, I am actually against trading back at #4. Frankly I want AT LEAST ONE impact player from this draft. That can come at #4. If we take a flyer on a QB at #1 and he fails, I don't want the draft class to be a fail because we chose not to take one of these top position players. We have 5 picks in the first two rounds, if we hit on 3, this will be an epic draft class for the Browns. That's only 60% people...If we can't hit on 60% in the first two rounds...then we need a new GM...Once again.... We are in total agreement here.. I will be disappointed in anything other than one of those two. I will support whomever, based on a total consensus, but they are the only two I actually have any confidence in. Here's the thing if you have 9 guys in a room in this order, between, Ken Dorsey, Todd Haley, Al Saunders, Ken Zampese, Hue Jackson, Bob Saunders, (at least 2) college scouts and unfortunately you have to include Jimmy Haslem...Maybe more, especially if you hire a special investigator to dig in deep, which they should... If you have 33% on the side of Mayfield, 33% on the side of Darnold and 33% on the side of (whomever the 3rd choice is)...and they cannot eliminate one to get one guy to at least 50% of the choice in the room...then I'll be damned if I'm not taking my #1 choice OVERALL, whomever that may be. Whether it's Chubb or Barkley..I would be sure to get the player I covet the most in this draft class. THEN, well, at #4 the choice should be easier to make between what is left of the QB carnage. Hopefully the one guy who gets above the 33% threshhold will be sitting there. But, if you can't come up with a consensus ONE SINGLE PLAYER, then no way do I just pick one out of a hat and take him at #1. Dorsey has final say, so it would be HIS guy and unfortunately, I don't believe he personally has enough information on all of these guys to make that choice. At that point, I would put the scouts in a room and let them fight it out, eliminating any choices that the special investigator deems a high risk.
In a backwards, twisted, and apropos Cleveland-esque way, though... we would be. Think about it this way: if John Dorsey's QB doesn't pan out (barring injury), is that not a stinging indictment of his ability to scout/draft? And in that way, are we not better without him as the GM? Yes, it's a longer process since he'd probably go 2-3 seasons before getting the boot, but hey... we've been looking for a competent GM since 1999. Personally, I don't want a head coach or general manager who look at Josh Allen or Sam Darnold and think to themselves - "Not only is this the top QB prospect in this class, but I can - and will - win multiple Super Bowls with this guy". So really, the wrong choice (ABBM) doesn't move us directionally one way or another, but it will eventually lead us towards a better F/O. This is one thing John Dorsey has going for him... he's a super-well respected scout/evaluator of talent and he's got a pretty solid track record. No, he's not perfect - no GM is. But he's better than a lot of the other options out there. Not only do I believe Dorsey is capable of making the right decision on the QB (Mayfield), but I also believe he'll do his best to add quality talent at our other draft positions - especially those in the first round or two.
