Except he's done it and played well at the NFL level. Last year he played 4 positions and other than a few low shotgun snaps was outstanding.
I believe ya. I realize Hubbard has had success....Ya just don't hear that too often. It was the word on Erving. smh...Turned out, he really couldn't play any.
My point is: I want the very best option available to the Browns at every position. Nate Solder was the 23rd best tackle in the NFL in 2018. From #22 to #1 on your list, who else was available? I don't beleive for a second that Joe didn't let the Browns know which way he was leaning until 3:30 this afternoon. They had to know well before us peons did. They're sitting there with the 2nd highest cap in the NFL and know they will have $13M on top of that and they back off because of a measely $1.5M? So don't hand me that shit about over paying someone. You pay the going rate !
Crappy teams have to overpay. We're a crappy team. Lyman is right when he talks about availability too. Supply and demand always jacks up the price. All this talk about governor, but the governor needs to stay on his feet to get the village fed.
Because that's his natural position. Just because you can play one side, doesn't mean you can play the other. Is every hitter in baseball a switch hitter? Some people just work better doing it a certain way...They can be the one of the best, but ask them to do it the opposite and they just can't perform near the same level. Coleman has always been a LT, until he got to the NFL. He had to relearn the position... So to answer Lyman: He ranked 28th at RT last year, sadly Mitchell Schwartz ranked #2 and he was at the table WANTING to sign a contract If there is a bright spot, Chris Hubbard ranked 18th, so we "should" improve at that spot in 2018. Doesn't change the fact that Coleman was playing out of position. He needed replaced, because he wasn't up to par. Hubbard upgrades that spot. We are now talking about LT, not RT where Coleman played last year. Look, I'm not saying you plug Coleman into LT and he becomes a top 5 LT...BUT, we already know where Solder stands and if you had signed him, you would have immediately been trying to upgrade him. At $15.5M per year, it is impossible to do that. You HAVE to play him at that price. $10M a year, you can overlook it, because THAT is what middling OTs are making in todays market. Everyone thinks Cousins was over paid, well at least he is a top 10 QB. SOLDER was over paid and he isn't even close to top ten. At that price, I would rather identify a guy in the draft and hope he can be coached up, because frankly, I don't see one that is plug and play in this draft. They all have warts...but, going by the best available, if Coleman can't switch back..then the draft is probably the best option, and hopefully there will be a better crop available in the 2019 draft. You can't fix every hole over night...the Browns have done an excellent job of upgrading the WR room and filling in veterans into spots that guys should have been on practice squads. That makes the entire roster stronger. I wish they could have made a better showing with the CBs available, that is where we failed the most imho.
There is a difference between overpaying and making the guy the highest paid at his position by $2M more than #2 highest paid. His street value is about $9M (which would be an increase of about $2M over what current like ranked players receive), overpaying would be about $11M...He is making $15.5M per year...If he were a top ten at his position, then yes, I agree the market dictates you need to improve the position so you bite the bullet, top ten guys are hard to come by...However, you don't make a guy the highest paid at his position realizing you will need to upgrade him as soon as possible. Being the 23rd best at your job out of 32 puts you in the lower 3rd of the league...Why would you "upgrade" your roster with a lower 3rd player? Let alone pay him the highest salary ever at his position? I realize that RT is not a premium position, BUT, Chris Hubbard is right around the average mark in the NFL at #18 anking...His position gets paid right around $5.5M for average RTs...His contract was for $7.5M average...We over paid...but we didn't make him the highest paid at his position just because he was the best available at his position. There is a difference between overpaying to improve your roster and putting yourself in cap hell with less than average players making the coin.
There wasn't one which is why the Giants got snookered. I am also in that camp Lyman, but at some point you have to say it isn't worth it...Solder hit that mark long before the Browns bowed out imho. Look, I wanted him too, I championed for him early on in the process...but no way did I ever imagine he would bring $15.5M in salary. He has a dead cap # of $24.9M in 2019 and $8M in 2020, so he IS your starting LT for the next 3 years if you sign him to that contract...and let's not forget, the Browns would have had to pay even MORE to get him to sign. I still don't understand where the measely $1.5M keeps coming in...It was reported fairly early on that the Browns were out of the Solder sweepstakes. My guess is they were willing to go to a number closer to $12M, which would have put him firmly on the over paid platter...the fact they didn't spend $16M on this guy makes me all cozy inside...it tells me that someone in Berea has control over Dorsey's spending, so maybe we won't end up in cap hell like the Chiefs are. I want the best players available, but you still have to be smart about it...not frugal, but smart. That second highest salary cap will dissipate so fast over the next two years. Let it be and let's see where this takes us... I can ASSURE you, with all my being, Nate Solder was not the one player that would make this team a Super Bowl contender...in fact, he wouldn't even be put in the category of a guy who helps you get one more win a season...and this is a team looking for it's second win in TWO seasons.
The Browns are throwing money around to backups/semi starters...mayb instead of paying a guy like OL Stephenson(mayb that’s his name) you save that $ for a bigger name
Calm down, cranky britches. That was a joke. And it was supposed to read "thanks a lot", as in it's Sashi Brown's fault that Joe Thomas is retiring.
They aren't just throwing money around...they are replacing inept backups with actual veterans that could matter. I guess that's my point, I don't want to save money for a "name". I want a total improvement that lasts over the course of his contract. If that improvement comes by way of backup players that don't suck nearly as much as the current ones when forced into action, well, I want those guys also. The bottom line is this...we got the next best QB on the market next to Cousins via trade. There wasn't a better one available. I say this because the Chiefs never engaged in talks with the Browns for Alex Smith...thus he wasn't available to us. Tyrod was the 3rd best option with him in the mix....BUT, is there anyone on these boards that don't want to immediately start trying to find his replacement within the next 2 years? He is the best available option, but he isn't near the top at his position.. He is going to cost us $16,000,000...There are 21 QBs in the league making more money than our Tyrod... Here is how he ranks: Business Insider Power ranking: 15 ESPN Total QBR: 14 NFL.com Index: 18 B/R NFL1000: 22 PFF Grade: 11 Stats: Comp%: 16 Yards: 25 TDs: 25 INTs: 1 (to the good, not bad) Y/Att: 17 QBR: 13 Rushing: 3 Rush TDs: 5 SO, we are paying him exactly what we should for a player we are actually looking to replace with an improvement...He actually ranks in the 50% of the league overall and is paid well below that ranking. IF you signed Solder, being in the lower 3rd at his position, you would be immediately looking for someone better than him, yet paying him as if he were the best in the league... I don't know how I can make it any clearer than that.
Joel Bitonio: Kevin Zeitler: Bitonio is sixth overall (third among LG) and Zeitler is 10th overall (t-5th among RG). Or to put it another way, @showstopper doesn't understand the sport of football.
Aditi Kinkhabwala was on 92.3 the Fan (covers AFC North, lives in Pittsburgh) and said this exact same thing. He was the sixth lineman for Pittsburgh (spoiler ahead, they have a pretty good offensive line) and can play any spot. If I had to bet money, I'd put him at the top of the LT list right now until a rookie unseats him.
Shon Coleman was hot garbage. Decent in run-blocking but not good as a pass protector. There is no way he should be playing the LT spot.
THAT is my biggest point in all of this...In the argument we are going through. The only thing anyone can think about is how to replace Joe Thomas. He is a sure fire Hall of Famer, you don't replace that guy, you make due. In THIS argument, you are talking about replacing Nate Solder, not Joe Thomas...So you are talking about replacing the #23 ranked LT in the entire NFL....I think you are all way over analyzing this. It is much easier to see it in your mind when you think in those terms. We don't know where these players will stack up until they play, I get that...but just because he played on the Patriots doesn't make him the best player in the league at his position. The Pats are one of the best teams at finding players that are better than mediocre and helping them play as a unit than any other team. That's why they succeed. I know everyone is panicking about replacing Joe, and I get it, I will miss him. One of the greatest Browns ever to don the uniform. Don't panic when you have to replace the 23rd best player at his position in 2017 though, because you "failed" to make him the highest payed player at his position out of desperation. Your next guy up, just might push him down to the #24 player in 2018....
{Blue in the face} He may suck as a LT...however...He has played left tackle his entire football life...That's high school and college. He never played RT until he arrived in Berea. To say he can't play left tackle BECAUSE he was terrible at a position he had never played before is inaccurate. You don't know that until he actually plays it. The one reason I worry about Coleman is that they used a guard in Spencer Drango when Joe went down...not a LT... For those that are wondering, Drango was #35 on that list...and he's a guard...he was only 12 spots behind Nate Solder, whom we are arguing about.
Friendly reminder that Hue Jackson strong-armed an owner and got a GM fired over this QB, whom he wanted to surrender #33 and #65 overall for.
Browns vs Bills this yr? For your sake you better hope the Browns win....I remember you were counting NYJ as a easy win and Chic the same and the Browns totaled 17 pts I believe
I don't disagree he should get a shot at the job... I just think Hubbard is our best bet. Also, the knock on him coming out was his pass protection and he was projected as a right tackle in the NFL because of it. It's not like the Browns just did something silly for the heck of it.
