Nah...gave more than that on post above....hes dropping as we speak after watching that Ohio St game....man was that a struggle
That was a negative that will always be there...thats all Im saying...lets see if he can over come it
Btw, my Noles were very impressive 2day...Sweat(sick day), Pugh(very solid) and Thomas(skyrocketing) were very impressive....2moro should be better w T-Mac and Derwin ---------->>>>>>>>>>>
Fair enough. Since you asked me, I'll answer your question from earlier. Here's a quick version of my notes from the Ohio State game - Dimitri Flowers was the x factor Made correct decisions with clean pocket throwing to personal accurate points, wide open players, remained patient In a broken pocket continued solid decisions but forced to throw outside of comfort zone accuracy diminished Continues to make money short to intermediate, between hashes Throws outside of the hash still questionable whether he can push it accurately on time in front of pro corners Escape ability may not be NFL caliber Basically, what that says is pretty much the average for all of my games on Baker. I got no issues with his decision making ability, his ability to play within the structure of his system or his ability to create when things change on the fly. He's very accurate in the short and intermediate, especially in the middle of the field. I don't have a factor in my scoring to grade leadership, but it's a quality that he obviously possesses. He has enough arm velocity to play at the pro level. He shows patience in the pocket, patience on the move and has the ability to stay composed under pressure. Possesses solid field vision and makes better than advertised progressions. Makes adequate pre-snap reads and recognizes coverages correctly. I question his ability to complete the deep ball with consistency (cue SAS with the PFF stats) and his velocity may not be sound enough to overcome his diminished accuracy when forced to throw outside the hashes on time and in anticipation. His movement within and out of the pocket appears to be adequate but I don't see next level mobility, something that I would like to see as I believe he may need to get out of the pocket more as a professional. He won't have the benefit of having receivers with as many open looks as a pro and I don't see the type of consistent accuracy in tight windows that I would like to see. He can be blind to edge rushers at times and anything that comes at him from an odd or hidden angle seems to throw him off his game some. I'm still comping him to Colt McCoy. I see a very good college quarterback that will be in the pros for a long time but I don't see a high level starter in the NFL.
He's going in the first, probably top 16 and I would not be surprised to see him go in the top 10. The desperation for arms is real and there is enough smoke to believe there will be at least one team ready to pull the trigger on Mayfield extremely early. If you're asking where I would draft him, it all depends on what team I'm making the decisions for and what players are still available when we go on the clock. I don't have all of my scores put together yet so I don't have a complete top 50. But based on what scores I have put together right now, Baker will be somewhere in that top 50 so that guarantees he will grade no later than an early second round pick on my board. What round you taking him in?
Thats what I was asking where would you take him....Late 1st early to mid 2nd round for me.....Im taking Rosen, Allen and Darnold over him no doubt...Jackson isnt good so if thats the top 5.....I would say Rosen, Allen and Darnold all top 12, Mayfield late 1st to mid 2nd and Jackson 4th or later
Allen is probably going to end up somewhere near the bottom of the first in my scoring, but his potential for growth really doesn't get reflected in an outright manner in those scores. For most players, their expected maturation can be gauged (to a degree) by the scores within the score (accuracy, anticipation, pocket presence, awareness, progression, velocity) but if you're drafting Allen you are also projecting that some of those traits are going to improve without any real baseline to back them up. For instance - His accuracy is concerning and it's reflected both in his completion percentage and in his lack of anticipating open windows. Will he develop that? It will largely depend on where he starts his career and whether or not he has the right mental make-up to take that next step. You can mitigate some of his anticipation issues with his strongest trait, his cannon arm, but you cannot become a next level passer in the NFL without anticipation accuracy. Right now I don't see enough of that in his film. A GM may be making a career defining decision by taking him near the top of this class.
Dont you think his shoulder injury was a direct result of his low comp %? He looked great in bowl game, impressive in Senior Bowl and killed the combine....all while supposedly finally healthy
It played a factor after mid November this season but, and this is just my quick take on your quick take, you could be living too much in the moment with Allen. His entire body of work in Wyoming shows inconsistency, questionable decision making, lack of accuracy, lack of anticipation and slow development. Did the injury slow that progression some? Probably, but it can only be viewed as 'possibly' because there is nothing in the rest of his collegiate career to suggest that he would have made a strong leap this season. He gets way too much credit for that bowl game. All 3 TDs came in the first quarter and he threw for 154 yds against a defense that was giving up an average of over 185 in the air. And he still completed under 60% of his passes.
That first TD in the bowl game was a thing of beauty....splitting 2 defenders w so much zip....NFL throw....discuss more 2moro
So, I'll admit, I didn't study Allen's bowl game...what you are telling me based on Tim's post is: You are grading Allen on One quarter of one game, the first quarter actually, in a game where he played BELOW what the average QB did against that defense... Yep stopper, no bias at all in your "analysis". This game of pigeon chess would take a lot less time if you simply stated: "I make all of my rankings based on traditional QB physical traits and nothing else you tell or show me matters".
All 3 of his TDs were the type of throws that you want to see from a potential NFL starter, but you have to be careful about just falling in love with his arm and ignoring his deficiencies. He makes questionable decisions that lead to turnover opportunities. His pocket awareness and feel for the blitz will need to improve greatly. I don't care how mobile or strong he is, the NFL pockets collapse with suddenness and right now it looks like it could be a major issue with him making the transition up. Some of his accuracy woes come from trusting his arm strength too much. He's going to need to learn to play within a system and take what presents itself rather than trying to force the game. He's going to need to drastically speed up his progressions, pre-snap reads and overall on field awareness or he will always be 'just an arm'.
No doubt he isnt a finished product, but the upside is most definitely there....best arm, best athlete(#s wise), biggest QB(size and strength), but worst competition
The question is whether or not he has the ability to properly develop at the next level, but none of his stats or his analytics point in an upward direction. He's one of the more difficult prospects in recent memory to put a positive arc on. He has the best arm velocity, and at times shows solid accuracy, but you can't say he has the best overall arm talent because of his questionable ball placement. Is it because his actual arm accuracy is an issue or is it because he has issues processing what he is seeing? One can be coached up if the player possesses the ability to learn. The other is a bit harder to overcome. We've seen athletic quarterbacks with cannon arms fail because of accuracy and awareness issues. Like all players coming into the league his immediate and long term success will be greatly influenced by where he ends up playing. If I had to rank the top 5 quarterbacks coming out for situation dependency, Allen and Mayfield would probably be at the top of the list, which coincides with where they are ranked in my top 5.
Tim, I get what you're saying about NFL success will vary depending on the team where they land. So, I'll ask this question with multiple possible options. The Browns have three glaring issues on offense. QB, WR and RB. This a deep RB class so lets assume that hole gets filled probably through the draft. They have a shitload of cap space and draft picks . . . So lets also assume they upgrade the WR position. That leaves QB. Assuming the Browns sign one of the following veteran QB's in free agency, who in this draft class would be the best fit for each? Kurt Cousins Nick Foles AJ McCarron Other
