Where Do We Go From Here?

Discussion in 'Cleveland Browns' started by TopDawg, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Plus I'm pretty awesome a chess.

    Pigeon chess, not so much.
     
    Lyman likes this.
  2. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

  3. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    This was Dorsey talking about the 2017 Draft Class:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Lyman "Franchise Asshole" Browns Buckeyes

    Back in the day, I was pretty good at playing chess. Nowadays, its more difficult to find someone who even knows how to play it.
     
    DvlDawg likes this.
  5. Dogside18 Franchise Player Browns

    Thomas also tweeted a weather report @ Drew Brees and @ Kirk Cousins bracketed by a pair of eyes.

    Maybe his QB eval is not that bad.
     
  6. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    He brings us the GOAT, and all is forgiven.

    He convinces Kirk Cousins to sign here for DeShone Kizer not to retire and keep playing football and we're going to have issues.
     
  7. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    Bullshit

    I don't know what your sudden crusade against Joe Thomas is. I understand your incessant rants to a certain point. Most have at least some merit to them. Baker Mayfield, I understand on a personal level because I think he is the best QB in the draft. I understand about Hue Jackson, because it really is difficult to ignore 1-31. (I don't agree with it, but I at least understand it) You're reputation is somewhat built on rants, I get it, you're the "rant guy".

    Joe Thomas, nope, I don't get it. He is playing a position in which there have been many play at the top of there game late into their 30s, Joe is 33 now, so when you say their long term...well, no, Joe is thinking about WINNING games TODAY, not WAITING another 3 years to do it. I can't believe a Browns fan WANTS to wait any longer to win games...OR gamble on rookies becoming the next great thing, when you have one that has already proven himself in the NFL and can win games TODAY.

    Honestly, maybe I shouldn't get too upset about this one, as it's just another SAS rant...but maybe I should start one

    #banSAS






    I really don't want that, but deep down, I really don't think you want to move on from Joe Thomas either....
     
  8. TopDawg Legend

    Was waiting for that...and I'm not doubting.

    So I do think that we need to look at OT's in this draft, just not at #1 or #4.... Probably not until pick #33. Who do you think might be available in the early second? Maybe late 1st? we obviously have the ammo to move up....Unless that theory of moving Bitonio to LT and drafting Quenton Nelson has some tread to it. That would be very interesting. I'm a believer in Nelson, but how reliable is Bitonio? That would be my main concern, if he were able to make the transition....But I did watch some tape on QN after reading that, and the dude is a beast. He looks like a lock. It reminded me of watching a dominant High School lineman at times. He just throws people around...

    IF Thomas informs us before the start of free agency, that he is hanging up the cleats, what more could we ask? That gives the Browns time to react and address the need however we see fit. Personally, I like the idea of going after O-lineman in free agency, should JT abruptly retire. In today's NFL, with all the rules against hitting, it makes it extremely difficult to develope these guys that ya need in the trenches...

    So what do we make of Shonn Coleman and Roderick Johnson?
     
    SAS likes this.
  9. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Is this a pro-Joe comment... or a pro-Kirk one?

    Look... I'm not waiting for wins, either. But we've seen what Cousins is and can do. With an above-average roster, he won nine games. With a below average roster, he won seven games. He's a .500 QB who needs a generational roster to win in the post-season. No changes before the 2018 season involving Cousins is going to change that.

    2019 is the target for the Browns pushing for the post-season. All decisions made in this, easily the most important offseason this franchise has ever had, need to be done with that thought in mind. We don't suddenly blow up the entire plan because we lost one front office guy (Sashi).

    Do your worst!

    :p

    You said it yourself... he's 33. How much longer does he have? I'm not suggesting we cut/trade him today. His value is essentially zero to another team coming off an injury and he's still going to get paid because of his guarantees. But it's time to think about the future without Joe.

    I've mocked it a few times, but I genuinely believe that we need to take an offensive tackle somewhere between 4 and 33 in this upcoming draft. Even if Joe comes back healthy, is on board with whatever QB(s) we add, puts all the strength/size back on in time for the opening game, and plays at a high level... how many more seasons is he going to do that?

    I don't think it's a brave stance to take that we're not going to win a Super Bowl in 2018... why mortgage so much of the future, churn through so much of the cap space, and pass on potentially finding his replacement just because he's a likable guy?
     
  10. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    [​IMG]

    My OT list looks something like...

    Connor Williams
    Orlando Brown Jr.
    Jamarco Jones
    Tyrell Crosby
    Brian O'Neill

    You can throw Mike McGlinchey in there, as most rate him an R1 (if not top) tackle. I just don't agree. But there's virtually no chance all six of those players are taken by pick 33. I make a move into R1 and select a guy, since we have the ammo - as you said. For me, if Williams is available at #15 (trade back scenario) or Jones available at #25 (trade up scenario)... that would be sublime.
     
    TopDawg likes this.
  11. TopDawg Legend

    I think what Dorsey would LOVE to do is, sign Cousins, and trade #1 or #4, to Buffalo for both of their first rounders and a future #1....Then you are sitting with 2 picks in the low 20's, and we take a QB right there...

    Then we got Cousins to win now, and a young QB to bring along "Aaron Rodgers style"....You got Saquon Barkley with the top pick that you held on to. And you could grab a top end OT with the other first rounder. Or WR....Or CB...

    Our Qb dilemma would be history...We would have a stud RB. Browns fans would have REAL reason to believe ....And what is now a Cleveland Browns tradition, we'd have two more #1's in next year's draft.
     
    IrishDawg42 and SAS like this.
  12. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Shon Coleman struggles, no doubt. He's got time/room to grow into the RT role, but if he doesn't show marked improvement in 2018 (better QB play should help), I would suspect and support the Browns replacing him in 2019.

    Rod Johnson (great name, BTW) is/was a long-shot to be a starter in this league. Guy's a pretty serious project at the position and plays one that requires a huge amount of live snaps to get good at.
     
    TopDawg likes this.
  13. Can honestly say I havnt heard of the 3 middle guys
     
  14. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    IF you believe in Cousins.

    We also could have signed the next Andy Dalton to the NFL's largest contract, missed out on blue chip QB prospects (Mayfield, Rosen, and yes... even Darnold), drafted the next Trent Richardson, and spent the new picks on a Mason Rudolph (Zac Robinson).

    That's a pretty quick way to earn yourself a ticket out of town, leaving us as fans holding the bag and waiting for the next-best-things to come in and fix this mess.
     
  15. Buffalo-lets just say their top guy is Darnold
    NYG-Rosen
    Denver-Josh Allen
    NYJ-Mayfield
    Zona-Rudolph
    Now your sitting at #21 n #22 to take Lamar Jackson as your future? Why play w fire?
     
    SAS likes this.
  16. TopDawg Legend

    lol! Well I'm more of a glass half full guy...

    But the main reason for that theory, is I think Baker Mayfield could slide to #20...
     
  17. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    [​IMG]
     
  18. TopDawg Legend

    Theoretically in this case, you BELIEVE in Kirk Cousins, right? Try to pay attention. We've discussed ad nauseum that if the Browns go all in on Cousins, they likely won't go QB in the top 5...
     
  19. So why at #21 or #22 are you taking your next AR? I am paying attention but your HOPING Mayfield slides down to the 20's...makes no sense...if you get Cousins you dont even draft a QB this yr
     
    IrishDawg42 likes this.
  20. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    That's the beautiful thing about this particular draft TD, there are SO MANY players that are ranked almost identical as far as talent level. You almost need to study each team between #5 and #32 to see exactly where those teams are in terms of need and ranking those needs. There are (11), imho, offensive linemen that could go in the first round

    Quentin Nelson OG
    Orlando Brown OT
    Mike McGlinchey OT
    Frank Ragnow OC
    Connor Williams OT
    Kolton Miller OT
    Isaiah Wynn OG
    Chukwuma Okorafor OT
    Brian O'Neill OT
    Billy Price OG/OC
    Dejon Allen

    Now, I don't for a second believe all these guys will go in the first round...what I am saying is that player rankings are so close in this draft class, the order of these guys are different with every single scouting service you will find and at least one has every name on this list in their top 32 rankings.

    Out of those 11 guys, 7 are OTs and all 7 can/have played LT. Which one is the best? I cannot even give you a consensus...But it seems to be Brown, Williams and McGlinchey as the top 3 on a consensus level...but all services have them ranked any where in their top 3 tackles. There isn't a clear top LT.

    If I'm putting down names on a paper...personally, the two I would want would be Brown and McGlinchey. One, Both or Neither might be available at #32, that's the God's honest truth. This is the hardest draft I have ever tried to rank players in. If there was EVER a draft that you could actually draft on need instead of best available, this is it, because honestly if you have a need there are at least (2) at nearly every position that are extremely close in ranking...and they are going to be extremely close to what the next position players are ranked as well...

    Now, you have to look at where you are drafting of course...so if you are drafting in the 20's and NEED a safety, the top two are probably going to be gone...but I can't honestly say the second best safety is ABSOLUTELY going to be gone before the mid-late teens to the point where you couldn't trade up if that is your glaring need.

    Now, I will say, if you're absolute top need is guard and you are picking #20, there is a rather large gap between Nelson and the next couple of guys and you will have to trade into the top ten to get him, which is rare for a guard and this kid is rare., but the next two guys are really close and one or both or neither could be available at #20. That's how closely put together this draft class is.

    We could have (3) wide receivers go in the top 15, or none be gone when we pick at #33...Long story short, we are going to get 4 really good players in the top 35 of this draft....
     
    SAS likes this.

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