2018 General Managers Discussion Thread

Nice, but you might want to announce it in the other thread...

 

lol! Good point.

 

I don't you're that huge...

 

@Tim, Are you a big Larry Centers fan? Your avatar reminds me of a different era. Too bad that guy played most of his career in the pre-PPR era of fantasy football. (at least before my leagues converted to that)...It seemed like he caught about 10 passes every game he ever played in. He would have been a deadly PPR running back...

 

I was only the Cardinals GM so I wanted to make sure that it was easy for people to relate my avatar to Arizona.

I do think Centers was a very good player and, on a side note, I have Jaylen Samuels comped to him in the draft.

And if you have an extra minute I will expand this a bit by relaying a conversation I had a few weeks ago...

I spend most of my time either scouting, researching, writing or talking about the draft. The rest of my days are filled with chores from the wife, or demands from the real boss of the house, my daughter. So when I end up sneaking out of the house to have a cold one or to help a friend with some inane project, the conversation quickly turns to football. Usually, someone is asking me what I think about 'so and so' or they are telling me reasons why they think a player will be great or will stink it up.

This particular conversation was about Lamar Jackson, but it ended up including Jaylen Samuels, Kalen Ballage and Chase Edmonds.

Jackson tends to be a love him or hate him prospect. He has the most insane physical tool set to hit the draft since Vick, and I think we can all agree that at one point in time, Michael Vick was an electrifying play-maker. If not for off-field idiocy and questionable drive, just how good could Vick have become?

Or, perhaps more importantly - What if the Falcons (or whoever) had gone all in on Michael and remade the entire offense to utilize the best of what he was?

Imagine an empty cupboard on offense. Let's say the receiver group is thin, there is no starting running back and the quarterback room is filled with journeymen arms. Now, let's say you made the decision to draft Jackson and you want to build the entire offense around him. How would you do it?

That's the premise that started off about a 4 hour conversation. It's something that I had pondered on previously so when it was brought up it took on a life of it's own rather quickly, and since the person I was discussing it with had some pretty strong opinions on the subject, we literally put pen to paper and came up with exactly what we would like to see happen while finishing off a few bottles of brew.

 

I guess I fall into the "hate him" camp. Not that I hate him - the person - I'm just not a fan of his style of play. QB's with his style of play tend to not last long in the NFL. When you invest in one of these types of QB's, you should be able to see a long term return on that investment. Michael Vick was a physical exception, but, his off field business sealed his fate.

 

I was always a huge Michael Vick fan. At least until his downfall.... By his own admission, he skated by on pure athleticism his entire time in Atlanta. Just imagine if he devoted himself entirely to the game. If he had studied and prepared the way most of the great NFL QB's do, it's hard to fathom how far he could have gone. The fact that he made it as far as he did without putting in all the grueling hours of mental preparation, is a true testament to just how special he was athletically...

Lamar Jackson is an amazing player....I'm not convinced he'll be a great QB, but I sure hope some team gives him a true opportunity....He will be must see TV. Most QB's can't dream of doing the things he can do to put pressure on the defense...

 

I think the reservation on Jackson is warranted, which is why I believe you need to rethink how you approach offense if you decide to make him your starting quarterback.

Our basic line of thinking combined a philosophy I toyed around with on paper some this off-season and matching players to it.

Basically, the entire offense for Jackson would be built around a 5 wide mentality, but you have to get the right personnel in place so you can make changes on the fly, no huddle all the time and create yardage on early downs with quick hits, quick shifts to runs and the obvious, quarterback RPO and sneaks. Keep the third downs to 5 yards or less and the options for success with Lamar running a pro offense expand exponentially.

That's where Jaylen Samuels, Kalen Ballage and Chase Edmonds come in.

Jaylen Samuels would function as the h-back, lining up at TE and FB with the ability to be a factor as a blocker, rusher and receiving threat. It would be the same for Ballage, with the larger focus being on rushing and receiving. Edmonds in open space may be the most creative runner in this draft class and utilizing him as a receiver first and rusher second would not really limit his game in this system.

Ballage has the size and speed to line up at any spot in a 5 spread while Samuels and Edmonds would need slot work, but the possibilities that would exist by utilizing a 3 back system in a 5 wide receiver set featuring Jackson as the quarterback are, quite possibly, endless.

Line up in any formation you like to start a series, change formations while staying in no-huddle and have a predetermined understanding that you can work with these players against any base or sub-package defense without substitution.

Death by a thousand cuts, lol.

 

Spotrac sucks but they have one redeeming quality that I pay the $20 yearly for - they archive old contracts. It's a great resource.

 

I feel like Jackson is heavily underrated. He isn't just a mobile QB, he has the best arm in the draft outside of Josh Allen.

 

Indeed...I'm telling ya. If he gets a true opportunity with the #1's, he will keep opposing defensive coordinators up at night. The guy will be a nightmare to defend if he can get that completion percentage up...

The first real complete athletic freak of a QB that I can remember was Randall Cunningham...Having speed at the QB position is like having a 12th guy on the field. It really can give the defense fits if it's executed properly. Having the ability to prolong a play and burn the defense. There's probably nobody better in today's game than Russell Wilson...Those that know me, know that I love the athletic difference makers at QB...

 

Interesting. I never knew that.

 

I still say Deshone Kizer didn't run it enough...When he had his best drives of the season going, it was always because he was effectively using his legs. He is truly gifted in that capacity. He just doesn't do it enough...That and he always finds a way to make that "head scratcher" throw at the worst time.

 

DeShone displayed the same issues in Cleveland that he did in Notre Dame. In most aspects, that guy was one of the more direct projections to be made because of the type of problems his game displayed.

If you throw Kizer into this year's crop of quarterbacks, remove all the game film and have people grade them all on just the physical build, DeShone is going to be ranked up near the top.

That's the problem with a lot of old school type scouting (and coaches being convinced they can 'change' a player at the next level). They weigh the wrong intangibles too heavily.

It's a lesson that apparently won't sink in for another season as Josh Allen will most likely be severely over-drafted this year.

 

All I can say is, it's a good thing the novelty brick I keep next to me during Browns games is made of foam....Otherwise, I would have shattered about 85 television sets watching Kizer play....It was brutal.

 

I look at him and see those skinny little legs like Bridgewater and wonder how those will hold up to NFL pass rushers... Vick was explosive and amazing to watch and even more fun to play with in Madden. But he made it work on athleticism not by being an actual QB and his style of play had him missing games by the handful. Most of the problems he had in college were problems he had in the pro's.

I honestly watched some of Jackson's tape for the first time today and am left thinking he is a tremendous weapon but I am not seeing him make NFL throws. His deep ball along the sideline has pretty good placement but other than that he is throwing mostly to guys sitting in soft zone coverage or is running the ball. (I was impressed with his vision as a runner though. He is creating blocks for himself and is patient when he needs to be) I am not seeing 12 - 15 yard passes outside the hash into actual coverage and his base feels small a lot of the time. I think about how much fun it would be to have him, OBJ and Evan Engram and say Sony Michel in the same offense, but I have very real concerns about his ability to make contested throws and stay healthy. To add to the comparison I feel like he has that same wrist flick effortless throwing style Vick used to rock. I always felt like no matter how hard Vick threw the ball it looked like he didn't even try to throw it hard.

I need to watch more tape but where you have him ranked (QB6 last I checked) feels about right. I just don't know where that correlates to selecting the guy. As a QB I feel like he is a 3rd round prospect but he has a totally different dimension to his game and I have to assume he is going to test very well athletically... So where does that place him round wise? I just don't know.

 

I think that's why it's a waste to draft him if you don't rebuild the offense around him.

His success will be heavily dependent on how much a team invests in reshaping their environment to suit his needs.

 

And what if you proceed to build an entire offense around him and he goes down to injury (it WILL happen). Are you then required to have a Jackson clone as your backup?

 

Yep, lol.

Really no way around that one. Unless you want to run a two quarterback system.

I'd attempt to come up with a philosophy and the right manpower to make a 2QB system work, but I haven't reached that level of football enlightenment yet.

 

My initial thoughts on Kizer were well documented last year when I saw him perform at the combine. I said he looked like a project at best, and his footwork was terrible when he was doing the passing drills. It looked like he was taking 3 and 5 step drops for the first time ever...

I quickly got on board after Cleveland drafted him, and I was hoping for the best, but it obviously wasn't that shocking when it all went so horribly bad...