2018 Free Agent Bids

Ha I found it! You see this is not true.
Brees on Spotrac is listed as $0 Base Salary next year with a $6M signing bonus and $6M cap hit. I don't think you understand what that means.
It means that Brees is not actually under contract anymore and the $6M is a theoretical placeholder.
Actually it's illegal for a player to have a $0 base salary and be on a roster.
Once that contract voids (which it would have if we didn't give him an extension for you) then Brees is automatically released and all 3 future years of signing bonus hit you at once for a $18M dead cap this year.

In that situation, if we did nothing then you would have lost Brees in FA AND had $18M in dead cap.
If you wanted to try and sign Brees again then you would have to do so in an open market and still eat that $18M on top of it.

Instead you spent $23.5M in cap this year and kept Brees.
So for this year you essentially bought Drew Brees for only $5.5M since $18M would have been dead cap anyways.

You just misunderstood how Drew Brees' contract worked. We actually saved your bacon.
And as I said have you done any restructuring yet to save cap?


P.S. Read the bottom:
"Voids 3/14/2018, kicking in $18M of dead cap"

And FYI 3/14/2018 is the start of FA and we already established that that equates to the start of our FA and not the real date.

 

Minnesota Vikings bid;
Teddy Bridgewater QB
$7,000,000


Previous bid;
Ravens; Teddy Bridgewater QB
$6,000,000
______________________________

Minnesota Vikings bid;
Jerick McKinnon RB
$6,000,000

Previous bid;
0

 

So the problem the whole time is just that I'm confused and don't know how contracts work? And to solve my confusion instead of talking about this with me you just decided to sweep in and "save my bacon"? Whew, I was worried it was something really bad!

 

Listen, Tim brought the issue up last moment because he was a bit confused and then we noticed the voided contract and we had to do something before our FA started.
We had to think of a fair contract and 3 of us discussed it. We were thinking of making it public but in the end we thought it would be more fair for all parties if the number was decided in private. A number thrown around I believe was 25M. I actually countered with $23.5M. Not so low that anybody else would complain and not so high that we believed you might have thought it was way too high.

Listen, I know you don't appreciate it being done without you knowing but it was a last minute thing we noticed and in the end even if you did know there wasn't anything you could really do to change it.

It's fine if you made an honest mistake. We aren't putting that against you. We aren't calling you stupid or anything either. You just didn't know and that is understandable. And yes we are just trying to help because if Brees wasn't fixed then he becomes a Free Agent and we would have you complaining about the $18M cap hit you had to eat and others would complain if we gave you Brees after the fact for less than they offered him in FA, or the that you didn't get a huge dead cap penalty. That's why it had to be done before FA.

No could we just have put a freeze on Brees and told you later? Yes perhaps in hindsight we should have just to prevent all this dialogue but in the end even if you knew we'd likely end up at the same resolution for Brees that we had already.

 

It's tempting to big again on Teddy but I'll see. Joe essentially is locked in for 2 years anyways.

 

First off, Tim didn't bring this issue up. I did. The mods response to my bringing this up was to immediately cut me out of a conversation that I had started. Really not cool, and talking to me like I'm some ignorant Johnny-come-lately who had no idea the issue even existed is a bit much.

Someone hit you with $25 and you countered with $23.5? Why were you countering anything, I'm the GM of the team, not you. I should have been involved with this process. Cutting me out was discourteous, but more importantly I think you made a decision without taking all the facts into consideration. I'm assuming that because I wasn't involved in the actual discussion, of course. But the number you came up with is absurdly high from my POV, and I should have been allowed to make that case before you hit me with a contract that has one of the top 5 cap numbers in the league this year.

I'm also confused as to why none of the mods is willing to answer my questions about Nick Fairley's arbitration hearing, the other contract with an open question on cap hit the team has.

 

Okay I'm going to try and tackle everything here. It's going to be in a list to be less confusing, even if it sounds patronizing.
1. I didn't know you specifically wanted $6M until just recently. Tim may have known more but he has been gone since we "settled it" last night.
2. The word ignorant isn't an insult. It means not knowing. You apparently really didn't know because you said you only were going to have a $6M cap hit and keep Brees. Spotrac's page even said on the contract notes that it'd be $18M on a void.
3. If you knew it was an issue why do you expect to only pay $6M? That still confuses me.
4. Tim brought it up with me and Irish. That is what I meant.
5. Tim had to go and hasn't been on all day. He had no chance to talk back with you about it, nor did the other 2 of us personally know he was communicating directly with you
6. As I said Time is a factor.
7. In the convo #25 was brought up. I said $23.5 and no one really argued from there. Although one of the others said they don't believe it would be any lower than that.
8. You may be the GM of the team but there are really only 2 options for you. Take a fair extension, or release Brees at $18M dead cap. None else, including $6M only.
9. Whether you noticed or not doesn't change that. Actually it's good that you noticed as Tim was able to get us together and fix it.
10. Going back to #8, in us getting a fair deal figured out that doesn't ill-affect the competition for you or the other 31 teams, we felt it was not necessary nor fair for you or anyone else to counter the number decided.
11. We do not believe it is absurdly high and that is the point. Brees has $18M future prorated money that needs to be accounted for in any extension even if a lot of it isn't in 2018 and he likely gets a short term deal. That $18M dead cap can't just disappear and they can't just prorate a ton of his new money as well or the stacking of the previous and current proration could be too much. He may and likely will go team friendly but the QB price market is way up of what it was a few years ago. We had to do some research. Here is one article used.https://247sports.com/nfl/new-orlea...-wont-make-Alex-Smith-money-in-2018-114453593

So $18M dead cap incorporation, short contract, increased market value and including a team friendly deal we came at $23.5M with $60M deadcap.


I just wish the real Brees just signed already... or does it like tomorrow.

So what cap hit were you thinking?

P.S. I did answer the Nick Fairley thing. I think you missed it since I didn't quote you.
I'll repeat it. Nick got released the day before this exercise started so you get the $1M cap savings from cutting him. As for the arbitration I believe we are ignoring it but if it greatly affects your cap for the better we will likely award you more cap. You'll have to ask Tim but I don't believe we will take cap space from you if the hearing favours Fairley.

 

Rams bid on
Sammy Watkins WR
$9,500,000

Previous bid:
Bears @ $8.5m

 

Rams bid on
Malcolm Butler CB
$9,317,000

Previous Bid
Titans @ $8.47m

 

Just to reiterate what Joe has already said...

Tim brought it to OUR attention. I didn't receive anything from you on the subject.

We had two choices,
1) ignore the fact Brees hasn't signed a contract in real life (even though he has stated publicly "I will be a Saint in 2018). At this point, he becomes a free agent on the first day of the NFL season. In our fantasy world, that was yesterday. If he doesn't sign before Day 1 of the new season, that $6M cap hit becomes an $18M cap hit. We didn't make this number up, it is a reality the Saints will have to deal with on day one.

2) We feel, like Brees, that the Saints will in the end extend Brees to keep him in the fold. Here is the BEST case scenario with Brees, That $18M cap hit is converted to a bonus and is spread out over 4 years (That is ONLY if they believe he will stay for 4 more years, the dudes 40 years old when the season starts). The more likely solution is that it is spread out over 2 years. You must realize, this cap hit IS NOT NEW SALARY TO BREES. He's already been paid that. So, you are looking at a $9M cap hit in old money, PLUS what the new contract entails. So, this contract would actually be paying him $14.5M in new money, some going to salary some going to a signing bonus prorated. The $25M came from Spotrac, it is Brees calculated Market Value. We AS A GROUP, felt that giving you a small relief to $23.5M was adequate considering Brees age...But do YOU really believe Brees will sign a contract for less than $14.5M to continue playing in the NFL? Brees WILL have a cap value higher than $23.5M...it's going to happen. If he signs for his market value of $25M, his cap will more than likely be closer to $34M.

So, all due respect, I am not trying to talk to you like an ignorant Johnny-come-lately, I simply don't believe you understood the situation Brees is in, or I should say New Orleans.

After all the complaining, I am more than happy to rescind the decision that was made on behalf of the exercise (not you) and let you deal with the fact that Brees has become a free agent as of yesterday at the opening of the league year. So now, you can deal with an increase from $6M Brees cap hell, to $18M Brees cap hell and you can enjoy bidding against 31 other teams for his services on top of that cap hell...Is that really what you want us to do?

We are looking out for the integrity of this exercise, not an individuals rights or thoughts. We are not going to award you Drew Brees and only have a $6M cap hit in the process as you kept alluding to. That is not the situation the Saints are in...They either re-sign him prior to the first day of the year or they lose him to free agency and immediately get a $18M cap hit. That is reality.

 

As far as Fairley, as Joe said, I moved on because he had already answered you.

(edit) to be specific..For the sake of this exercise, the arbitration will be ignored as if it is stated that neither side will make any additional amends. There is absolutely no way to decide if either side will have to pay the other anything that will effect the cap in 2018. So what ever that cap situation is today, is what it will be for this exercise. I don't expect them to even set a hearing on this before free agency is over. So, for this exercise, Nick Fairley is a free agent, as the Saints released him prior to the start of our exercise.

 

Minnesota Vikings bid;
Marcus Sherels CB
$6,000,000

Previous bid
0

 

I'm just gathering up all of this so I will need a few minutes to digest it and cover all the points.

First, I apologize for being offline yesterday. We traveled to get my wife a new vehicle and when we returned home last night we discovered one of our neighbors had downed a tree and tore out part of the line set between poles. No phone, no internet and no cable so I had no access until this morning.

Now, @backgrinder , I understand some frustration on your part but here are the bullet points:

• Drew Brees was not going to be under contract in 2018 for $6,000,000
• The deal that we decided on was the center of 3 numbers (not the lower of two, but still extremely fair considering the current QB market)
• There were no rules for this scenario, but that doesn't mean that we simply gift a franchise quarterback
• Your other options were to franchise tag or cut, but since his deal was structured for no future tags, this was the most realistic scenario

The reality is that under our current rules, Brees should have been placed into free agency because he technically is not under contract when real FA begins. But, the Saints and Drew have both indicated that they are going to get this done so Joe and I got together to discuss your concerns, then we brought Irish in to confirm that we were approaching this in good faith.

This was done in the spirit of trying to do right by you and the Saints. To view it any other way is contrary to it's nature.

If you would like to continue to discuss this matter, please open a private conversation up including LAOJoe, IrishDawg42, Will and myself.

 

You are right. I believe there was a 3rd lower number discussed with before we went to Irish and was deemed low.

 

The third number was 18 million dollar dead cap that he would have to deal with if Brees was deemed to be a free agent.

 

It wasn't that. It was $21M with $18M dead cap but that was before we looked into the entire cap situation properly. As you can tell that is well off considering the old and future dead cap and other stuff which we know is going to be much higher. It was quickly scraped for a $60M dead cap and a slightly higher salary. $21/18 just didn't make sense at all.

 

The New York Jets bid on

Nigel Bradham LB $8,000,000
Previous bid: Philadelphia Eagles - $7,000,000

Trey Burton TE $7,000,000
Previous bid: Philadelphia Eagles - $6,000,000

Prince Amukamara CB $8,000,000
Previous bid: Chicago Bears - $6,500,000

Teddy Bridgewater QB $10,000,000
Previous bid: Vikings - $7,000,000

E.J. Gaines CB $8,000,000
Previous bid: N/A

Morris Claiborne CB $6,000,000
Previous bid: N/A

Demario Davis LB $6,000,000
Previous bid: N/A

 

If I was Brees, I would figure I am playing for 2 more years and want about $25m per year. That's still team friendly (I figure he'd get easily $30m on the open market), but I'm not that fussy about how I get paid the money. So the Saints can offer him a 4 year deal with $10m base salary in the first two years and $30m signing bonus - apportioned $7.5m per year, which lets the Saints spread out the cap hit). That gets Brees a cap hit for the next two years of $10m (salary) + $6m (dead money from the old contract) + $7.5m (signing bonus pro-ration). That's $23.5m (and the same for 2019 - in 2020, they have $13.5m to not have him and that'd go up to $21m if he retires!). So $23.5m seems like a very fair amount to come to.

I do think if backgrinder can come up with a similarly fair, but alternative solution, he should at least be given the option to put that forward - its definitely tough for him to have this imposed upon him without consultation, but I can't really see what he can put forward that is realistic and gives him more cap relief.

FWIW, on the Nick Fairley thing, I suspect that eventually the Saints might technically be able to recover the full amount of his contract based on it being a non-football injury/pre-existing condition, but I think they would probably settle for paying him the money he was owed for last year and nothing beyond that.

 

I know this Drew Brees stuff is important and it's good people are having a discussion about it but can it be had in another thread? All these long messages make tracking current free agent bids a million times harder to do.

 

The Eagles bid on

Nigel Bradham LB $8,800,000
Previous bid: Jets - $8,000,000

Trey Burton TE $8,000,000
Previous bid: Jets - $7,000,000

Demario Davis LB $6,750,000
Previous bid: 6,000,000