It would be crazy to get cute and try to get the QB at #4 IMO....You open yourself up to any team trading up in front of you.
Please...Winston hasn't done much. The Bucs were disappointing as hell...I know everyone with HBO fell in love with him during "Hard Knocks" last year, but I think he's way over-rated. You act like he's done something to prove himself a great NFL QB...Heck, for that matter, the jury is still out whether he's better than Marriota.... I would take Mayfield over Winston if given the choice....
I like it, the convo is getting started early this morning! I also agree with Luck...In fact this could be the year 4 QBs go in the top 4 picks...That would be somewhat incredible. 1. Browns select Baker Mayfield 2. Giants select Josh Rosen 3. Colts select Sam Darnold 4. Browns sitting there with so many choices, but the Broncos and Jets are both in need of QB, both may be in love with either Josh Allen or Mason Rudolph, but not the other. So a bidding war of sorts could break out, sending a 2nd round pick to the Browns for that #4 pick. **Jets trade up Josh Allen... 5. Here is the kicker, it could actually be Tim's #1 overall QB Mason Rudolph here making it 5 in a row. This draft is shaping up to be one that will be talked about more than any other... NOW, free agency will dispel this in the end, as one of these teams will end up with Kirk Cousins and another could end up with Nick Foles if a contract extension can be worked out ahead of time.
Something struck me yesterday when hearing about McDaniels on my way home. They radio head said something like "he wants to be in a situation with a strong front office", "a great personnel group in place", and all I could think about is John Dorsey, The Wolf of Groza Blvd, Alonzo Highsmith, and McCloughan. Is JD banking on becoming the Browns coach next year?
Umm, I doubt it... I think he was considering Andrew Luck, pre-Super Bowl...then once the reality set in after the SB and officially accepting the job, he started realizing he might be taking a job that will never see Andrew Luck back in uniform, and if he is, reality is it may not be the same Andrew Luck you would hope to build a franchise around. That and I also heard that the Patriots sweetened his contract, I'm sure there were also incentives to have a seamless takeover when BB moves on, which I think happens in the next 1-2 years. This franchise, he is intimate with. He knows the owners inside and out and what the commitment to winning means to them. I would be surprised if they don't spend another 2nd rounder on a QB this year to groom behind Brady for 2 years. I don't think he plays more than 2. Brady and Belichick ride off into the sunset after the 2019 season and McDaniels takes over with Brady's newest protégé from the 2018 draft...Then McDaniels runs the program into the ground...because well, he THINKS he's BB, but he isn't ..
All that may be, but Josh McDaniels is not going to be real popular anywhere outside of New England after that flip flop...I heard three assistant coaches in Indy already picked up and moved their families under the assumption McDaniels was going to be the coach. The Colts were running ads inviting people to "get to know Josh M."..... He withdrew his name last year from the SF coaching search, and now he leaves the Colts at the alter, after agreeing earlier to take the job....wow. He's not making any friends around the league. It took him a while to repair his reputation after things went sour in Denver...It really surprises me that he would do this. I'm thinking Kraft and Belichick probably promised him he'd be coach of the Pats by a certain date. It very well might be when Brady decides to hang em up...
Yeah, I was a bit surprised last year with SF. But you are absolutely right, I don't think he will be considered outside New England for a few years at least after this gaff. Although, to put some of this on Indy...Who hires a coaching staff before the HC is actually hired? Now, they either find a coach willing to take the hires. (they have already stated these coaches will be retained under the new guy) OR, they pay them off without working a day for the franchise if they go after a coach that insists on having his own guys. Either way though, McDaniels wasted a lot of people's time and resources only to cower out of a situation he was too scared to deal with. I'm not sure I would want him in New England either...
I am SO open to this. I'd move down as far as #15 (Arizona). There are 2-3 guys in the Top 10 (IMO) but 25 guys in the next 10 - 20 range. Posted it earlier, but McCloughan has also said he prefers Guice to Barkley - not saying he's going to come in and completely run the draft, but it's worth considering.
Easy to bag on McDaniels - he's earned a lot of it. But it could have gone the other way, too. McDaniels gives his agreement, thinking he's walking into a franchise QB that most people still love and then find out he's not only still hurt, he's likely to miss the entire season *BUT* the owner loves him so much he won't let you take a QB at #3. I'd probably bail, too. Also, just nice to see a franchise more dysfunctional than ours for once.
I can honestly say, I'm not in love with the #4 pick. That doesn't mean I don't love some prospects that will be available, I just am really high on a lot of players in this draft...about 50 of them actually. My top guys right now are: Saquon Barkley Baker Mayfield Bradley Chubb Minkah Fitzpatrick Derwin James Roquan Smith Mike McGlinchey They are almost interchangeable. I would be ECSTATIC to get two of this group, no matter which ones are chosen by the front office. Of course, if Cousins isn't selected, Baker Mayfield becomes an absolute at #1 for me. BUT, after that, the next tier..imho doesn't fall off that much. Derrius Guice Harold Landry Joshua Jackson Denzel Ward Calvin Ridley Courtland Sutton Arden Key Tremaine Edmunds So, like you said SAS...to drop down anywhere between 5-15, I really wouldn't be insulted or hurt that they were passing up on major talent to do so. There isn't a name on that list above that couldn't emerge as the best prospect in this draft. I put the odds higher for the first group, but that second tier played at or has a skill set to play at a very high level in the NFL. In order to get one of those 14 to go along with Baker Mayfield AND have an opportunity to add yet another (You are already going to get two from this list, could be 3) from the following list: Ronald Jones II Sony Michel Marcus Davenport Vita Vea James Washington Rashaan Evans Isaiah Oliver Maurice Hurst Brian O'Neill Connor Williams Sam Hubbard Anthony Miller Orlando Brown Kolton Miller Christian Kirk Ronnie Harrison Armani Watts Da'Ron Payne Malik Jefferson Jerome Baker Auden Tate Leighton Vander Esch Rashad Penny That's 37 names I would love to have on the Browns roster...This isn't taking into account the other 5 QBs that could be taken or other positions that will be top 50 picks, but either out of position for the Browns, or simply not a need.(I know it's hard to believe there is a position we don't really need). To think we WILL have 4 of those players above.. (2) from the first group and (2) from the third group puts a smile on my face. But the difference between these 3 groups are so small, I would be fine with getting (1) from the first group (Mayfield), (1) from the second group and (3) from the third group. These are the 3 groups that I expect starters to emerge for the Browns. So you have to ask yourself...Is: Mayfield (or insert your QB of choice), Fitzpatrick, Michel, Tate Mayfield (or insert your QB of choice), Barkley, Kirk, Harrison Mayfield (or insert your QB of choice), Chubb, Michel, Harrison or something like: Baker Mayfield (or insert your QB of choice) Derrius Guice Connor Williams Christian Kirk Ronnie Harrison Hell...if you drop to 5 or 6, you will still get (2) from tier 1 . Free agency will go a long way in determining the value of that #4 overall pick...well, that and the pro days and combine for these QBs. I expect at the very least, 4 QBs to go in the top ten. But, 5 wouldn't be out of the question from this class...I fully expect 6 to go in the first round, possibly 7. (5) First round locks are: Mayfield (top ten) Rosen (top ten) Darnold (top ten) Allen (top ten) Rudolph (top 20) I also expect Lamar Jackson to go in the first round...Luke Falk has an outside shot imho. Honestly, I don't expect Mike White to make it out of the second round either. This really is a QBs needy teams wet dream of a draft...Albeit, all of these prospects have negatives. BUT, that is true of nearly every draft...it's just that these prospects on any given other draft year would probably move up above some of the first prospects taken. I haven't been sold on any of the QBs of the last two drafts. I liked a few prospects, but as outside the top ten..in other words, too many other players ranked way above them to take a chance. The top 4 in this class, SOMEONE will be in love with.... The key here is there is no shortage of needy teams: 1 overall Browns 2 overall Giants 3 overall Colts (It's looking more and more each day like the Colts need a replacement for Luck, just in case) 5 overall Broncos 6 overall Jets 11 overall Dolphins (if reports are true they are ready to move on from Tannehill) 15 overall Cardinals 17 overall Chargers (Every year could be Philip Rivers last, and they have no one to mentor at this time) 21 overall Bills (It looks like they will move on from 27 overall Saints (Brees is 39 years old, it's time...) 28 overall Steelers (Roethlisberger has contemplated retirement already..moving on from Haley could give him a renewed sense of want) 29 overall Jaguars (They have "committed" to Bortles for 2018, but also haven't offered him a contract extension..that's telling) 30 overall Vikings (They have (3) QBs, who are ALL becoming free agents. I would assume they keep one, but that will be talked about shortly) 31 overall Patriots (They traded their QB in waiting Garoppolo, so they need a new mentee for soon to be mentor 42 year old Brady) That's 14 teams in need of QBs on different scales. I have 5 free agents that will fill, most likely, 4 of those spots: Cousins (Denver) Bridgewater (Arizona) Keenum (Minnesota) Bradford (???wild card, maybe the Bills) McCown (NY Jets, still draft a QB at #6) Then, if all rumors come to fruition, Nick Foles, Ryan Tannehill and Tyrod Taylor will be on new teams in 2018...which takes the total ton 8 teams of need out of the picture of immediate needs (again, I still think the Jets take a QB with a McCown re-signing, as will the Bills with a Bradford signing) Brees will re-sign with New Orleans EVERY other name you will bring up is at the very best, a place holder for a rookie...That leaves 6 teams that NEED a QB NOW or have an aging QB that will be retiring before their rookie contract runs out. Let the bidding begin for the rookie class of 2018
The other caveat: Moving into the 20s and expecting (2) of that second tier to drop because of the QBs...in that case you could move down to #22 and get a second tier 2 guy at #23, as the Bills hold both of those picks and would need both to move all the way to #4. (edit) You would also probably get a 2019 2nd rounder in the deal as well...
Only caveat to that is if we move to #22, we have to take another quarterback. #ATraditionLikeNoOther #MyFairBrady #Manzeedquinn
FWIW... all this trade-down talk becomes mute if Saquon Barkley wins the Combine. He's a top-tier character and football-first guy. He was productive and a leader on his college team. He reportedly was running 4.2 forty-yards last offseason and he's a workout warrior... if he comes into Indy at 230 pounds and lightning fast, there's almost no chance we can pass him up. Unlike 2016 and 2017 when I was certain on guys like Howard and Hunt, I don't have a mid-round guy I love at that level. In fact, the RBs I like most after Barkley are the usual suspects - Guice (Top 15), Ronald Jones (Top 25), and Sony Michel (Top 50). None of those guys are third, fourth, or fifth round steals. Barkley could very well be the surest thing at the position in decades. If he checks the final boxes at the Combine and Pro Day, I'm all on board with him at #4. We have 13 picks... we can't possibly hope to spend them all.
Translation: Jim Irsay is a garbage owner and Andrew Luck isn't getting replaced any time soon. Josh McDaniels made the right choice.
Question, Sammy . . . Assuming we kept 1, 4 and 33 - how many of the remaining 10 picks would you be willing to give to the Giants for #2, or the Colts for #3? Would you be willing to pull a modified Mike Ditka?
I know this wasn't to me, but I would give them all!! I wouldn't think twice about it...however, you need to realize that isn't NEARLY enough to even get to #3. #35 = 550 #64 = 270 #65 = 265 #97 = 112 #119 = 56 #129 = 43 #150 = 31 #161 = 26.6 #193 = 13.8 Total 1367.4 #2 = 2600 #3 = 2200 The only way it works is if Irsay and Chris Ballard believe they can use 15 draft picks to their advantage...But, the reality is, you would need to throw all of that AND your 2019 first round pick (worth about 950) at them to even begin...might take more... For the record, I would give all of that, but I don't think I'm giving up next year's first. Then I would take: Baker Mayfield, Saquon Barkley, Minkah Fitzpatrick and one of the following, one of which will be available Derrius Guice Harold Landry Joshua Jackson Denzel Ward Calvin Ridley Courtland Sutton Arden Key Tremaine Edmunds Ronald Jones II Sony Michel Marcus Davenport Vita Vea James Washington Rashaan Evans Isaiah Oliver Maurice Hurst Brian O'Neill Connor Williams Sam Hubbard Anthony Miller Orlando Brown Kolton Miller Christian Kirk
