The Browns haven't scored 30+ in a game since October 2, 2015 and needed overtime to do it. Prior to that, it was October 12, 2014 when they dismantled Pittsburgh and Alex Mack broke his leg. The Los Angeles Rams, who had what most deemed a "bust" at QB, fired an "old school football coach" and made a leap of faith hiring a 31-year old first time head coach have scored 30+ point nine times *THIS* season and gone 8-1 doing so. They have games against Tennessee and San Francisco coming up. Coaching matters.
Under Shurmur... 2016 (Keenum, LAR): 196 of 322 (60.9%), 2,201 yards (220.1 YPG), 9 TD, 11 INT, 76.4 QB rating 2017 (Keenum, MIN): 290 of 427 (67.9%), 3,219 yards (247.6 YPG), 20 TD, 7 INT, 98.9 QB rating 2015 (Bradford, PHI): 346 of 532 (65.0%), 3,725 yards (266.1 YPG), 19 TD, 14 INT, 86.4 QB rating 2016* (Bradford, MIN): 427 of 595 (71.8%), 4,259 yards (250.5 YPG), 23 TD, 5 INT, 101.1 QB rating *Includes two games from 2017 (17 total starts) Now, Shurmur had all sorts of failings here in Cleveland and I doubt very strongly any of the former Browns guys are even in the running for the job, but he's done way more with quarterbacks under his tutelage than Hue Jackson ever has.
As a head coach, Shurmur's teams were completely lifeless. Every bit as dysfunctional as Hue Jackson's teams. Actually worse IMO, because there were a few games under Shurmur where it looked like the players just quit. He won a few more games than Hue, because he had better than Kizer at QB, but Shurmur's run here and in St. Louis as a HC was gawd awful....He has done a nice job as OC. That's where he belongs IMO.
Yes but are you talking about hiring him to coach the QBs or OC.... or HC...because he has done well as an OC, but failed miserably as a HC. Just like Hue....
Just to be clear, I do not want Shurmur. I think he's an upgrade over Hue is all - so would be a six year old punching in Madden plays thinking it was a video game, for the record. I don't want to hire the next head coach based on someone's success as a coordinator - we've seen that play out and end poorly. Romeo Crennel is one of the best coordinators in the business but failed as a head coach. I want the head coach decided on traits like the Steelers did with Tomlin or the Ravens did with Harbaugh.
Again, I simply want to do a qualified search for an offensive coordinator that can come in here and change the outlook for this offense...Force Hue to stay out of his way and I believe Hue could do the management needed for game prep if he does that. Like has been discussed, this team is so close...despite the 0-14 (1-29) record... We need about 4 veterans (one of which is Alex Smith) and a good draft AND.... A capable offensive coordinator. We get that right and we are playoff contenders in 2018. We have all the tools need to do EXACTLY that this off season. It isn't a reach in any way, shape or form. The assets are in place, and we have hired a guy willing to USE the assets instead of merely accumulating more...Using the assets are what will turn this team around.
From Tom Reed's "Trials and Tumultuous Times of Jimmy Haslam's Reign": I get that Sashi Brown was over-matched as a defacto General Manager - much like Hue Jackson is as an offensive coordinator and head coach. However, what approach did Sashi Brown (and Paul DePodesta who's still gainfully employed by Haslam) take that is so anti-traditional football? Brown drafted: Emmanuel Ogbah, Carl Nassib, Shon Coleman, Myles Garrett, Larry Ogunjobi, Caleb Brantley Brown signed: Alvin Bailey, Marcus Martin, Matt McCants, J.C. Tretter, Kevin Zeitler, Joel Bitonio (re-signed) That's Football 101 - building through the trenches. They drafted talented players along the defensive line, and it's paying off - the Browns are tops in the NFL in run defense metrics. They signed veteran offensive linemen (likely where analytics played a role was determining market inefficiencies where it takes 3-4 years to develop a lineman that you then have to sign to a big contract anyway, so go after veterans someone else has developed). Despite an 0-14 record, the Browns are an elite pass blocking line giving their quarterback a TON of time to throw and lead the NFL in rush yards per-attempt. The failure to exploit these metrics falls solely on the offensive coordinator. Brown's signature move - trading Carson Wentz for a slew of draft picks - is not new or analytical thinking. It's classic roster building. Dallas did it with Jimmy Johnson. Seattle did it with John Schneider. Oakland did it with Reggie McKenzie. Jacksonville did it - although not as deliberately. All classic "football" guys. I won't even hear an argument that Hue Jackson would have been good to Carson Wentz or that he'd even have the opportunity to start as a rookie. Wentz - in the middle of an MVP season - went down with injury. His back-up came in and posted the following line: 24 of 38 (63.2%), 237 yards, 4 TD (7.7%), 0 INT (0.0%), 1 sack (5.5%), 115.8 QB rating Wentz's season averages: 60.2% completion, 253.5 YPG, 7.5% TD rate, 1.6% INT rate, 6.0% sack rate, 101.9 QB rating DeShone Kizer, in the midst of one of the worst seasons for an NFL QB ever, was benched for Kevin Hogan - a "traditional football GM" pick, who proceeded to go: 20 of 37 (54.1%), 140 yards, 1 TD (2.7%), 3 INT (8.1%), 4 sacks (9.8%), 38.1 QB rating Kizer's season averages: 53.9% completion, 184.5 YPG, 2.2% TD rate, 4.6% INT rate, 7.0% sack rate, 59.4 QB rating Hue Jackson has torpedoed his team and Sashi Brown paid the price for it.
Friendly reminder: Paul DePodesta - not Sashi Brown - shared the anecdote that they (the Browns) didn't feel that Carson Wentz was a Top 20 quarterback. They were not alone in that thinking, as many evaluators and offices had Wentz further down on the board than Philadelphia did. Hue Jackson was even at the time quoted - by his own media mouthpiece - as liking Wentz but not at the No. 2 pick. He also had his prodigal son, Bob Griffin on the roster at that point. It wasn't until Hue continued to shift the narrative in the media that he suddenly "wanted to draft Carson Wentz".
You might have the hardest head on this site..lol....do you understand the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result....the Browns crowd the LOS and QBs have a field day against them...do you see when a QB does PA and the LBs just fly down hill and the TE or WR crossing is WIDE open in the intermediate area of the field...lets take a look at the QBs they have faced that are backups or arnt very good this yr and their pass rating: Brissett avg on yr is 81.7 vs Browns 120 Dalton avg on yr is 87 vs Browns 128(2 games) McCown avg on yr is 94.5 vs Browns 101 Hundley avg on yr is 78 vs Browns 111 Flacco(down yr by his standards) avg on yr is 79 vs Browns 93.5(2 games) Wake up and smell the coffee SAS...this defense is not disciplined and very unsound and give up 26 pts game which ranks 2nd last....Hue and Gregg MUST GO!!
We've been over this. The Browns do not crowd the line of scrimmage, running eight-man fronts less than most every other team in the NFL. In fact, scheme is the reason they're destroyed over the middle. The cornerbacks are playing 8-9 yards off the LOS. The free safety is playing 25 yards off the LOS. The middle linebacker is playing 6-7 yards off the LOS - and his first reaction is to drop, not attack downhill. With what's essentially a six man front, the Browns are the league's best run defense. We agree on Hue and if the new head coach doesn't retain Gregg Williams, so be it. A means to an end.
So explain these plays....1st play vs Balt is mugging all 3 LBs showing a 6 man pressure vs spread 4 wide....not a great box to run so Balt does the logical thing and hits the seam vs a 1 high safety...easy pitch n catch...on the TD to Watson....again heavy pressure w mugging LBs vs a spread look....not ideal to run so lets throw to the opposite hash vs 1 high safety....LB not even close to covering him 33 yd TD...next series hard PA pass and LBs all flying downhill w a zone blitz as D Shelton is suppose to cover someone....smh...after strip, sack fumble Balt next play is another hard PA fake and just watch all 3 LBs and safety(8 man box)....its stealing vs this horrible defense selling out for the run...then in the 4Q Balt just gashes them w Allen...proof is in the pudding www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KbDAuHBVGo
I don't disagree with what Sashi did...It's what he ignored while having assets to address. THAT is what doomed Sashi Brown to the exit door.
Ironically, I think you are both right to a degree.... The Browns do play the run on every down, not necessarily playing an 8 man box, but everything is geared towards containing the run, then with the deep safety training to read the ball and follow it as to not give up a big play.... I STILL don't believe it is scheme, but rather personnel that is dooming the defense to fail. You need special CBs and an extra special FS to pull this off, sadly we have very competent players at both, but none are special. In this scheme, you need two pro bowl caliber CBs with some of the quickest reaction times in the league. In order to keep this scheme going, you need to spend your first round draft pick on a CB every 3 years to get them trained and ready to move into a guys spot at a moments notice, because if you have that high of a talent, you won't be able to pay two to stay on the roster, they will leave every 5 years for more money. Then, you need to identify VERY SPECIFIC traits in a FS, most of which would also require a first round pick every 4 years in order to keep the talent on the roster to accommodate what is needed..Sometimes in a deep draft you can find one in the second round....However, you have now taken away 75% of your first round draft picks in order to maintain a roster for this scheme. Right now, Williams is teaching the defense the scheme, and I think that is in hopes that he can show what is needed to complete the scheme to run efficiently. We currently need AT LEAST one CB and one FS to even be able to be efficient, if not proficient, at this scheme...I would love to see what this current defense would look like with Minkah Fitzpatrick and Trumaine Johnson...then draft Mike Hughes out of Central Florida to groom.
Unlike Lyman, I'm not talking solely about QBs, it's the overall lack of veterans that made this team intolerable to watch (even though I do every damn week).
I agree, but with a retrospective advantage. When the committed to the plan, it made sense. They wanted to "change the culture". For too long, we had players - even good ones - who moped and just collected a paycheck. Tashuan Gipson and T.J. Ward chiefly among them. I get ridding yourself of those guys. They hired, in Hue Jackson, a widely-respected coach with great personal skills to be that paragon in the building. Instead, he's been a snake and a cancer and the tone he's set permeates the team. The beat reporters have consistently mentioned the immaturity and churlish nature of the locker room (Daryl Ruiter calling it "the worst he's ever seen" in 30 years of covering sports). The leaks coming from Berea undermine other areas of the organization and create an environment where personal accountability is an after-thought. It's easy to say that now, but we thought we were getting an upstanding head coach who would lead by example. He has, but it's been the wrong example.
Joe "Mr. Cleveland" Haden balked when asked to take a paycut, commensurate with his performance - which had been league-worst in recent years. He was cut when he refused and then signed for less money with the franchise's chief rival. Mitch Schwartz epitomizes the market inefficiencies in offensive linemen. Outside of the rare exceptions, it takes so long for a guy to develop that by the team he makes it, it's contract time. Schwartz had three garbage years and one great year - what was the true player? The Browns offered him a deal that he and his agent shopped. By the team they realized Cleveland's deal was the best one out there, it was too late - the Browns had moved on. Terrelle Pryor was a huge success story - really the only one - in 2016. A former quarterback cast aside by most teams make the difficult transition to NFL wide receiver. Under Al Saunder's development, Pryor hit the 1,000 yard mark with unremarkable QB play and was set to be a free agent. The Browns offered him a very reasonable contract that he - at the behest of his agent - shopped around the league. When he realized he wasn't getting anywhere near the Browns' number, he asked them for a one-year deal. They said they wanted a long term deal or nothing at all and he took the single year package offered by Washington - hoping to cash in big in 2018 free agency. The list goes on and on. Taylor Gabriel's 358 receiving yards is not the reason we're 0-14. Demario Davis, who struggled mightily in pass coverage in 2016, was traded for a gaping need - free safety. Unfortunately, the player was a bad fit and was cut as a result. Davis' production (59 solo, 40 assist, 2 passes defenced, 1 forced fumble) from 2016 has been replaced and improved by Joe Schobert's for a fraction of the cost (74 solo, 51 assist, 1 interception, 2 passes defenced, 3 forced fumbles, 2.5 sacks). Current cap hit - $540,000 for Schobert versus 2016 $4.2 million for Davis.
