There are four first round QB's in this upcoming class: Mayfield, Rosen, Jackson, Darnold. If Allen declares, he's fringe 1/2. If Darnold returns to USC for another season, Allen sneaks into the first round. None of those guys are prototypical QB's (e.g., Andrew Luck, Jameis Winston) so the fit will be need/value/opportunity by team. Much like Chicago with Trubisky, Chiefs with Mahomes, and Texans with Watson last season... teams will identify the player they want and negotiate to get him. QB1 for New York almost certainly would not be QB1 for Cleveland. That's the point I'm making and what's driving the question. Mayfield is my QB1, as such, as @IrishDawg42 noted, it makes sense to take him No. 1 overall. But gauging his value to other teams, he may be QB3 or QB4 in some cases and we may be able to navigate the draft, pick up a blue-chip guy, and still get our desired QB. I would only take this course if we had signed a veteran capable of starting the 2018 season. The absolute worst case in that scenario is missing out on a prospect, developing Kizer for another season, and re-evaluating everything in 2019.
Undersized (6'3" and 215) for the prototype who does better outside of the pocket. Comes from a spread offense. Smart kid - interest in economics. Former tennis player. Outspoken, sometimes to a fault.
Not likely for me. If you just used last year as a guide how nice would be to get Marshon Lattimore (11), Kevin King (33) and Marcus Williams (42) in one haul?
So, WIlson is better than Cousins, but not "that much higher". We can play the "throw money at him game" all day long, but at the end of the day they still have to want to come to this fecal display of a team. So in that scenario, you can control who you're getting. Seattle is rough enough where they **MIGHT** entertain the idea of somebody helping them rejuvenate their team. Maybe they see someone that they view as a franchise guy that's available with that pick, who knows. It might not be probable for this to happen but it certainly is not impossible.
This is a great comment and it makes me think of the current culture that seems to occur on teams that have struggled for a while. I will use the Raiders as an example. How many coaches have they had since Gruden? How many QBs? They didn't let the team develop until Carr. I do think Cousins would really do well with the Browns if Gordon and Coleman? (Forgot the name) panned out. The sad thing is I don't think they wait. They'll start from scratch after this year and then they're at square one again. I truly think they could develop a winner if they had a clearly defined front office structure and a coach that knew the team was patient.
2 Years ago, this is exactly what WE were told. Everyone had their job and they were all going to work together for the greater good. We were told to have patience, because they were doing it differently than the past 17 years and were in it for the long term. We were told that the front office and coaching staff had leeway, but that they still expected to be able to show us progress along the way and that is what we were supposed to look at to know it's working...That's where they failed. We absolutely did it differently than any other Browns regime, or NFL franchise in history. They took this roster back to a form resembling an expansion team. I applaud what they have done within that structure. I think they optimized everything they had...except for veterans. I believe they underestimated the impact that veterans have in even the worst teams in the league each year. It is what keeps teams competitive, even when their rosters are depleted. It is truly why the progress cannot be gauged by us fans... However, I'm not as certain as everyone else that large scale change is coming once again. It is EASY to point to the progress they have made and what the assets available to them in the 2018 off season can do to impact that progress. I'm not certain there were veterans available in 2017 that would have helped them win 7-8 games this year...Probably 3-4 games is more likely. What they have for them is the young guys that are themselves becoming veterans. They have added some key players the past two years, here and there, to go with the very young roster. I do believe this team is closer than a 1-23 record would indicate. Of course, adding the right pieces via draft will become essential in a playoff run in 2019 and beyond, but even those players will not make the 2018 season historical. If they want to win back the fan base, it is now time to go all in on using the monetary assets available and bring in the most important veterans they can find. That starts with Kirk Cousins....Cousins would not only save this fan base, it would save everyone's jobs in that building, allowing continuity to continue to grow. With Cousins, you don't have the pressure of playing players that are too inexperienced to force onto the field. I like Kizer, I don't hide that fact, but his inexperience doomed this team from game one..and the back up QBs are only backups so the pressure was thrust upon a 21 year old to lead a NFL franchise. I would love to see Kizer stay on and learn from Cousins over the next 3 years. That way in case of injury, Kizer can still be salvaged. I don't believe he can magically become a savior in the off season, as I also don't believe ANY ROOKIE QB will either. If they rely on Rosen, Mayfield or Darnold, we are in for yet another down season and it may be the end of the franchise, not just this regime...
No where have I ever seen Rosen listed at 220 pounds. I use www.sports-reference.com/cfb/ as it's one of the best data repositories known to man (the other is www.pro-football-reference.com). He's listed at 6'3" and 215 there and until the Combine lists the NFL's official height/weights I will continue to use 6'3" and 215 pounds. And sorry, but there's no way this is a 220-pound frame: Here's Christian Hackenberg who measured 6'4" and 223 pounds: Rosen is built more like Jared Goff (6'4" and 215 pounds) with a tall, lean frame.
To be clear, I am firmly in the "Fire Hue" camp as I think he's been the key component to the current disaster in Cleveland. If he sticks around and we do sign a veteran QB, will he start him? Who will it be? He already tried to cripple the franchise trading for A.J. McCarron - will he aggressively pursue him in free agency and sign him to a Mike Glennon+ contract? If the Browns draft a young QB with one of their first round picks - which they should - will Hue rush that person? Will he stubbornly leave him undeveloped? He has not shown me one iota of leadership or adaptability in his time here. He's forced the issue with quarterbacks and made horrendous in-game decisions. HOWEVER... as much as I am for letting him go, I worry if that happens they pull the plug on everything when we were on the verge of getting it together.
Browns reported Daryl Ruiter yesterday on the Fan said in his 21 years of reporting on professional sports that this Browns locker room is the worst one - through all major sports - he's ever seen and been in. Immaturity, celebrating mediocrity, the players themselves not anywhere near like professionals. So did the F/O underestimate the presence the veterans might have had? Or did they over-estimate the ability of the coaching staff to be the leadership that would be missing without the veterans?
Per Kizer, his expectations of his rookie year coming in this season: "I did not expect this to be challenging. I felt I was going to be a couple years ahead of other guys [because of his time at Notre Dame]. I expected immediate success here. I expected to come in, take a couple steps out on the field, maybe sit for a couple games, but then be the starter for a long time and win a lot of games early." Yikes. Lack of awareness? Lack of appreciation for the difficulty of playing QB in the NFL? Lack of humility? Where have I heard that attitude before? #WreckThisLeague
Here's the problem, bud... I think we agree Rosen is a very talented player. I have him as my QB2 in this class and the drop-off from him to QB3 and QB4 is pretty steep. My biggest problem with Rosen is, with such a natural arm talent and a very QB-friendly system to work in, why did he not have more success? They went from 29-11 under Hundley (who looks like hot garbage in the NFL, BTW) to currently 17-19 with a much better college QB (No. 1 recruit, per some) and the same head coach. I haven't seen Rosen elevate his game. Hundley's three seasons: 837 of 1,241 (67.4%), 9,966 yards (8.0 YPA), 75 TDs (6.0%), 25 INTs (2.0%), 150.8 QB rating Rosen's three seasons: 698 of 1,151 (60.6%), 9,099 yards (7.9 YPA), 57 TDs (4.9%), 26 INTs (2.2%), 138.9 QB rating ... and Hundley was a dual-threat QB (1,747 yards, 30 TDs on the ground).
Mora fired.....he must have declined w recruiting over the yrs....I dont see a Myles Jack on their team
