Nope. Vince Lombardi, Don Shula, Tom Landry and Bill Belichick would have all been losers given the front offices employed by this team over the past 20 years.
A new coach doesn't always roll in and clean house. There's not much left to clean here. The fat has already been trimmed off this roster. The way things are setting up for the next draft, Cleveland should be an attractive option for any coach. There are a lot of young pieces in place... If we get the right guy, he's not going to come in and make roster mistakes. He's going to realize where the talent is, and proceed from there...
Lyman, you are correct. No matter what we do at coach, it isn't gonna matter much if we don't straighten out that front office. We must draft better. And we must find a QB... Though I think all those coaches you listed would have us in much better shape than Hue Jackson's Browns...
But a new Head Coach will ALWAYS bring in a new coaching staff. Complete with new schemes and player needs to fit those schemes.
If you really stop and think about it, Sashi Brown isn't the problem. He has; Accumulated a shit load of draft assets. Squirreled away a huge amount of cap space capital. Rebuilt the entire O-line and most of the D-line. And has actually drafted more players that contribute than bust. The main problem in the front office, IMHO, is it's structure. Too many Chiefs - not enough Indians. What exactly is a "Chief Strategy Officer"?
I think the negative consequences of a potential coaching change are being overblown, here. Bring in a coach who has the right vision for the team, and is willing to bridge the gap between their preferences and talent available. The best coaches adjust scheme to the players, not the other way around. They'll have plenty of potential suitors, but will likely be looking for many of them outside of the current NFL bounds (which can be problematic), given that the job isn't the most attractive in the world. The trick is going to be whether or not the front office and the head coach are on the same page. That's the biggest key, especially with a front office so focused on their take on numbers. There has to be communication and cooperation.
I'm sorry, do you think they have purposely hired coaches that DON'T think they have the best vision for the team? What does that even mean? You obviously don't know what is going to happen until you get into it. I'll tell you this, less than two years ago this ownership fired the last of the league suggested front office guys and the holdover coach to implement something entirely new. They WARNED the fanbase, media and anyone else that wanted to listen that it was a long term plan. Not fix a hole and hope to get better. They are now a little over a season and a half into this LONG TERM plan. Is it fun in the short term? Obviously losing every week is not exactly the result they hoped for, but I also don't believe they are going to listen to an angry mob to make large changes to either the front office or coaching staff. They are in this together. When you make the changes they made to personnel, you cannot hold a coaching staff accountable. Now, evaluating Hue's in game performance is another thing and I believe they can force him to make a choice between HC and OC and fill one or the other...but otherwise, I don't think there will he many changes to coaches. Front office, same thing, evaluating the talent brought in compared to 31 other teams may produce some tweaks, but as Lyman pointed out, they have done their jobs according to how it was laid out when they were hired. I think many could be disappointed if they think they are going to do a complete overhaul. The end if the day, they are building a sustainable core, they haven't done anything BUT build that core. Playoffs weren't in the first two years plans for this team...they are building for the future and that is exactly what they said they were going to do the first press conference they held.
Are they building, or are they spinning tires? Sorry, but you are sugar coating a big stinky mess. What progress has been made? They embarrass themselves at every turn. It wasn't enough to unwisely pass on Carson Wentz, they had to call their shot...They told us Bob Griffin was the answer....They told us to "trust them" on Cody Kessler....They drafted Kizer, and started him week #1.....They let McCown go...THey botched the McCarron trade....They lose so much that one of the nations top QB prospects felt the need to announce his intentions to avoid the Cleveland Browns at all costs...How could it get worse? They've passed on good QB's, and brought us shitty QB's. The FO's performance speaks for itself, as does the coaching......Pretty much everything they have done on the field has been a disaster too. They have more dysfunction in one game, than most team's have all season... Sorry, but there's gonna be big changes...defending this shitstorm is a waste of time. I understand we don't want to reset again, but we can't just keep spiraling into the abyss either...
FTR: Sam Darnold denies saying that about the Browns...Make of it what you will. This is nothing new. Myles Garrett made a remark before the draft too. So have several other players (all joking of course). (cough) When your team becomes synonymous with losing, this is the kind of shit that gets thrown around...
Some context to help appreciate just how good Mayfield has been. He's on track to break Sam Bradford (first overall pick) in passer efficiency in a career. He's on track to break the NCAA record (his own record) for passer efficiency in a season (196.4), a mark previously held by Russell Wilson (191.2). His passer rating this season is 202.1. The next-closest QB is almost 20 points off that mark this season. And he's doing all this against the toughest schedule in the NCAA.
Well, I had to un-ignore SAS, it is extremely difficult to even follow a thread in here ignoring a Browns fan...I will try to be less confrontational, maybe that will ease my frustration with his comments...and just attempt to ignore him rather than "ignore" him. Now, I know I am the eternal optimist and maybe the last true glass is half full human in Ohio...but... What if... Hue's offensive system is just really complicated for new player's to learn and they have been using games to learn different aspects of it at a time? If you look through the first half of the season, each game they were working on certain things it seemed, which made it pretty easy for a defense to make adjustments in game. It would also explain why Kenny Britt made the comment "this offense will be scary good come November" in the first place week two...Why "November"? Was it because there were stages to the offensive growth, culminating in the complete package around this time? Maybe it isn't coincidence that it culminated in a better offensive showing last week. The one thing that worries me is falling behind..I'm still not sure Hue is capable of not abandoning the run as soon as they lose a tie/lead. What if... This offense was so complicated, Hue felt having someone that understands it already would help this team more than any other tool available to NFL teams? That player being AJ McCarron. Not as the future of the franchise, but the educated veteran this team was lacking all year. To mentor DeShone Kizer, not take over for him. Wouldn't that make him the genius he was touted rather than the bumbling idiot most on these boards are making him out to be? What if... Stages begin to show what the potential future of the franchise is going to look like? 1) Shit show..first half of the season 2) Not quite a shit show...first game of second half of the season 3) competence, getting Coleman back will be a tool that could help this team look better moving forward 4) Howard Wilson, seems he might be coming back as well...Kind of late in the season to make a major difference, but can he at least help? 5) Josh Gordon, yes, I am saying it. From a pure talent perspective, he is the best those of us under the age of 60 have ever seen lining up at Wide Receiver in a Browns uniform. By all indications, he still has his athleticism. 6) IF, Peyton Manning is truly buying a house in Cleveland and that is leading to a front office position..he could certainly help with the future of continuity for the Browns. 7) With every snap, the young roster moves closer to being educated vets in the systems they are in. There have been signs on both sides of the ball, the more they play in them, the more consistent they will become. The more comfortable and consistent the less issue there should be with problems like stupid penalties. 8) Haslem was/is on board with the plan, according to public speaking...however, I do believe he is also becoming quite impatient with losing. This will/should force the hand of the front office to give a nice balance of veteran addition, as well as good draft with so many bullets in the chamber at the top...For the record, I have read through everything I missed the past few days, and I agree with, or will answer SAS question, using multiple picks to add (4) first round talent guys would be quite beneficial in this stage of the rebuild. I would love to see this come about...Maybe using even more than the 4 picks discussed to move up further than the (2) 20 something picks, if a player is available that has been earmarked. 9) Veteran QB presence...What if the Manning ifluence isn't merely in the front office. What if future ownership includes the Manning family and not just Peyton Manning? Eli is obviously on his last leg in New York, he and Peyton could actually help in both aspects of the equation, one on the field to help the young QB room and one in the front office to lend a brilliant football mind to the think tank. 10) 2018 the Browns become the talk of the NFL, winning 3 games in two seasons to winning 9 games in year 3 of the ground yup build... Well, that is how my 3:00 am mind is seeing where we go from here...
Now, on to the draft... The (4) players mentioned... #1 I am all for Baker Mayfield, believe it or not...I have been watching film of all the top QBs and it is EXTREMELY clear he is the best in class option. It isn't, in my opinion, a reflection on DeShone Kizer's future. Just as I stated preseason, Kizer needs to be mentally superior to succeed in the NFL, so starting him early shouldn't be an issue for his future, if it is, he isn't made for this league. Along those lines, he should welcome any and all competition as well. If Mayfield is the best player available, then it would be quite stupid not to choose him in this stage of the rebuild. I would feel much better about a team of Eli Manning, DeShone Kizer and Baker Mayfield in 2018 in order to get EITHER Kizer or Mayfield ready for 2019. Lyman, I love the idea of bringing in Kirk Cousins, hell I think I was the first to mention it...however, I think even with the Brinks Corporation on board with lending us one of their trucks, that might be a futile endeavor. OK, that takes care of #1 overall... #5 overall (Houston), we should shore up the FS question with a top talent, Minkah Fitzpatrick or Derwin James would become immediate help to this team. Youth aside, either of the 2 would be an upgrade to anyone on the team or available in free agency. #18 overall (TRADE) #32 #65 and 2019 2nd round pick: Roquan Smith, we need to upgrade the LB position in order to make this defense elite. #31 overall (TRADE) #37 round pick from Houston and #108 Equanimeous St. Brown WR to groom for when/if Josh Gordon relapses. #62 overall (Philadelphia) Sony Michel RB Georgia, 3 down back to take over duties for the departing Crowell.
I need sleep...I hate when I fall asleep early in the evening, then wake up so early...today is going to be an extremely long one.
Only problem is the price tag... as mentioned previously, #33 and #65 get you to #21 overall in the draft. That's not "veteran mentor" QB capital - that's "potential future of the franchise" capital. If you wanted to bring a veteran who had no qualms being a mentor in the room and not pushing for starting time, bring in Jason Campbell. He was with Hue twice - once in Oakland as the starter and once in Cincinnati as the backup. League minimum for his 9 years of service would run the Browns $900,000 - not two high draft picks and a massive contract in the off-season.
