What a horrible yr whether at Doak or on the road...inexcusable season and Jimbo needs to make changes after the season
^^This all day. My first round of scoring for quarterbacks didn't treat him very well - https://live4sportnetwork.com/forum/threads/2018-quarterback-class.10753/ He's currently sitting at about the low second/high third range.
Fun Fact! The expansion Tampa Bay Buccaneers went 2-26 in their first two seasons. The New Order Cleveland Browns have gone 1-22 in their first two seasons, careening towards 1-31. Through the same number of games (32), Tampa Bay went 5-28. Browns will need to win four of their next nine games to tie that mark. Five of their next nine to beat it.
I am ready to admit I was wrong about Carson Wentz. Are the Browns? And not for passing in him, the Browns were never going to take him anyway. Hue Jackson, the QB guru, wanted Jared Goff. The F/O wanted picks and got a deal they couldn't pass up. Likewise, it's impossible to know how well (or poorly) he'd do in Cleveland. But for calling the shot that he "wasn't a Top 20" quarterback. The realization of Wentz begs a new question... does anyone trust Hue Jackson or the front office to identify and develop the quarterback of the future here? Hue fell "in love" with Bob Griffin. He wanted Jared Goff. He likewise did not want Wentz. The F/O drafted Cody Kessler. Hue gushed about Kessler. He subsequently benched Kessler. He didn't want Trubisky or Watson, possibly wanted Mahomes The F/O drafted DeShone Kizer. Hue gushed about Kizer. He subsequently benched Kizer. All in the span of about 83 weeks. No one from this regime can make a quarterback selection in the first three rounds of the upcoming NFL Draft. For this reason, they either need replaced or they need to aggressively pursue a veteran quarterback to take over the team.
2018 Free Agent Quarterbacks You have to pick one... Drew Brees, 38 New Orleans Kirk Cousins, 29 Washington Sam Bradford, 29 Minnesota (previously has said he wouldn't play for Cleveland) Jay Cutler, 34 Miami Josh McCown, 38 New York (Jets) Drew Stanton, 33 Arizona Chad Henne, 32 Jacksonville Ryan Fitzpatrick, 34 Tampa Bay Derek Anderson, 34 Carolina Mark Sanchez, 30 Chicago Case Keenum, 29 Minnesota Matt Moore, 33 Miami Scott Tolzien, 30 Indianapolis Teddy Bridgewater, 25 Minnesota Geno Smith, 27 New York (Giants) Kellen Clemens, 34 Los Angeles (Chargers) Tyler Bray, 25 Kansas City Chase Daniel, 31 New Orleans Joe Webb, 30 Buffalo Blaine Gabbert, 28 Arizona Jimmy Garoppolo, 25 New England Austin Davis, 28 Seattle E.J. Manuel, 27 Oakland Kellen Moore, 28 Dallas Brock Osweiler, 26 Denver Brandon Weeden, 34 Tennessee Tom Savage, 27 Houston Minnesota having three quarterbacks all hitting free agency is an interesting situation. You have to assume that Bridgewater gets franchise tagged. Cousin's tag would be too costly. Garoppolo may get tagged but New England's cap hit jumps dramatically in 2018 (I've seen estimates range from $12.3M to $22.9M in space) and franchise tag for QB upwards of $25M in 2018.
Or they do another $150,000 independent QB analysis and actually DRAFT THE #1 GUY in that report this time around, instead of the guy who sends them a text. I know Teddy Bridgewater was injured and for THAT reason, he hasn't really panned out. But, I do think injury aside, the argument could easily be made between him and Carr....But not the two taken before him in Bortles and Manziel. REGARDLESS of their decision on a rookie or current roster QB, I believe they owe the franchise to go out and get a veteran QB for the 2018 season. This year has sailed, we are past the point of bringing a guy in now.. This could be the year of the veteran QB in free agency, teams may be thinking they can find one in the draft with the recent success stories since the 2010 draft: Deshaun Watson Carson Wentz Dak Prescott Jameis Winston Marcus Mariota Derek Carr Andrew Luck Russell Wilson Ryan Tannehill Kirk Cousins Cam Newton Andy Dalton Tyrod Taylor Sam Bradford Still possible: All 2017 QBs, including Mitchell Trubisky as the front runner Jared Goff Teddy Bridgewater Jimmy Garoppolo (I'll put him here because everyone is pining for him) I listed all of these guys because, think long and hard, EVERY one of these guys YOU would take right now on the Cleveland Browns...Yes, even Andy Dalton and Tyrod Taylor. I want any of the three current QBs to succeed on this team, but the one example that shoots my theory of "giving a rookie time to learn" in the foot is Deshaun Watson. The Texans were anemic on offense prior to him being elevated AS A ROOKIE (so that isn't an excuse any longer), now they are the best offense in the National Football League. The only thing you can point to, the ONLY thing, is Watson being inserted as the starting QB. The pass on Watson may go down as one of the worst decisions in Browns history when all is said and done. With Wentz, you are STILL benefitting from the trade in known and yet to be picked players. Wentz trade: WR Corey Coleman OT Shon Coleman QB Cody Kessler WR Ricardo Louis S Derrick Kindred WR Jordan Payton OL Spencer Drango S Jabrill Peppers QB DeShone Kizer First-round pick in 2018 (via Texans) Second-round pick in 2018 (via Eagles) Now, if you delete: Jabrill Peppers, Deshone Kizer and 2018 1st round pick..and replace it with: Deshaun Watson and any of the following; Obi Melifonwu(S), Zach Cunningham(LB), Josh Jones(S), JuJu Smith-Schuster (WR) at #52 Unless they hit a home run with the Texans pick in 2018, or DeShone Kizer makes some gargantuan strides over the course of his career, or Deshaun Watson is as big a fluke as RGIII was as a rookie...the Browns lost in that Texans trade, maybe more than any other trade and/or pick in the history of the NFL, let alone the Browns. Let that sink in...The Wentz trade could have netted you 10 players AND DESHAUN WATSON as your starting QB...
But, on the flip side...how did your scoring look on Wentz and Watson? I'll admit, I had a second round grade on both of the them, while fully expecting both to be gone well within the top ten overall.
Just goes to show how volatile free agency is...they were the two top rated WRs on the market... Building from the draft IS the right decision...however, patience needs to be long and steadfast if that is the decision you make. We could put all our eggs in the Kirk Cousins basket and have him have a career ending injury his first game in a Browns uniform. Free agency sets the team back years if they miss on the free agents...A loyal team player who re-signs each contract extension (See Joe Thomas) is MUCH more reliable as a free agent signing than any you will ever sign off the street. In house free agents have a vested interest in the team. The free agent that jumps ship, well he just told you where is loyalty lies--with the $$$$$$
There are only 4 on that list: Kirk Cousins (without a franchise tag) Jimmy Garoppolo (without a franchise tag, I'm not giving the Patriots a first and second round pick for a one year contract) Drew Brees (if he is packaged with Sean Payton, only scenario I want Brees at 38 years old) And my personal favorite TEDDY BRIDGEWATER..The QB that SHOULD have been chosen in the first place. Injury and all, I would place more interest in him than any other QB this off season(including the 2018 draft).
Off of memory - Watson had a low first/high second and Wentz had a mid to high first (I think he was 14 overall). However, my projection on Wentz was that Goff was more pro ready while Wentz had the higher ceiling. I'm not ready to sign off on Watson yet, only because I still see a lot of the bad still mixed in with the good. If he suffers a setback it wouldn't be the first time a player over-performed to start his career, only to fade instead of progress. I'm not writing him off because he has loads of natural ability but until I see him clean up parts of his game I can't get on board with the idea that he will be the next great quarterback in the NFL (see Derek Carr). And for Darnold, he could still end up with a higher grade. There is a lot that goes into my scores in the second round that's not a consideration in the first.
Well I agree we'll regret passing on Watson, but you really think we are benefitting from that pile of mediocrity, as opposed to having Carson Wentz? Actually, other than Kindred, and the picks we don't know what to do with anyway, I'm not sure that list even qualifies as mediocre...Give me Carson Wentz ANY day....He's a viable MVP candidate in his 2nd season! That's a no brainer, there... CARSON WENTZ (through 7 games): 17 TD's 4 ints 1858 yards 104.0 Rating and he's the NFL's #1 QB on 3rd downs...What more telling stat could you ever want in a young franchise QB prospect? Dude is the real deal.
WR Corey Coleman Best WR on the team, injury prone, juries out OT Shon Coleman starting RT QB Cody Kessler backup QB WR Ricardo Louis Starting WR, on a bad WR group S Derrick Kindred Starting S, viable player to argue the point of Watson over Wentz WR Jordan Payton gone OL Spencer Drango backup S Jabrill Peppers starting S, juries still out.. I would say at this point, you would need to weigh the following: Deshaun Watson Corey Coleman Edit:Take MY GUY Will Fuller instead, since we are doing "what ifs" Shon Coleman Derrick Kindred Jabrill Peppers Edit:He would not have been picked had Watson been taken at 12 or Carson Wentz I would take the group of 4 above (along with the 2018 second round draft pick) over Wentz by himself....with the roster we currently have(and none of the above players), Wentz doesn't look any where near where he is right now. That's what we all have to keep in mind...nor does Watson for that matter, but I liked Watson better than Wentz, so that's really all I have to go on.
lol! C'mon Irish...The Browns passed on Watson. You don't get to count him as a Brown... Hell I'll go back two years and just forget Kessler, give me Prescott...right? I'm talking about things as they currently stand...Give me Wentz any day over that group of Browns players you originally listed as "benefitting" us.
They passed on Wentz too, so YOU can't count him as a Brown...what does that even mean in this scenario? The #12 pick (which was subsequently used on Watson AND was the Browns original pick) was a by product of the Wentz trade. BECAUSE they passed on Wentz, Watson was available for the Browns at #12...what am I missing here? If we are doing, "what ifs" Watson should absolutely be included in the scenarios. Personally, I would take Watson over Wentz...so I stand by my posts... As far as Prescott, that's a little more of a stretch, don't you think? He was passed on multiple times by every team in the NFL, including the Cowboys who passed on him 4 times prior to the selection. I'm not talking 20/20 hindsight analogies on every QB that was available in rounds 1-7 for the past 10 years, we are talking about players that were taken in the opening rounds of the draft. As they currently stand, I am taking Deshone Watson...to go along with the CURRENT BROWNS ROSTER(minus Jabrill Peppers and a replacement player for DeShone Kizer), over Wentz, the current Browns roster minus the players we are discussing because they wouldn't be on the roster if he was chosen...
and I'm not counting Wentz as a Brown...I saying we f'd that up. Clearly we'd be in better shape with Wentz on the roster as opposed to that original list... You've really tried to twist this thing around...It has NOTHING to do with Watson...or Watson vs. Wentz...or any of that. It's about Wentz VS: WR Corey Coleman OT Shon Coleman QB Cody Kessler WR Ricardo Louis S Derrick Kindred WR Jordan Payton OL Spencer Drango S Jabrill Peppers QB DeShone Kizer First-round pick in 2018 (via Texans) Second-round pick in 2018 (via Eagles) Which would be more beneficial to the Browns? I say Carson Wentz, and it's really not even close...
Sorry, @IrishDawg42 ... I meant who do we sign in the 2018 offseason of those guys. I wouldn't make a move for any of them right now. What happens with the coaches and front office obviously changes the outcome, but assuming for a moment that Jimmy Halsam doesn't go nuclear with this group. There is zero chance they can draft a rookie and thrust them into the lineup immediately - especially since Hue has failed miserably as a developer of QB talent. You can hope that it clicks for Kizer, but we're talking a Herculean leap from Year 1 to Year 2. So if we don't make a change in the front office, it seems to be the F/O is going to have to back the truck up for a veteran.
