Where Do We Go From Here?

Discussion in 'Cleveland Browns' started by TopDawg, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish


    2 things here...

    A) He just submitted a lawsuit for collusion against the NFL
    B) If it isn't collusion and it is because of his play, going to the Browns won't help his cause

    Which leads to, Kaepernick may turn down a Browns offer unless it is for starting QB money...are you willing to pay him $15-18M per year on a contract to see if he is the answer?
     
    SAS likes this.
  2. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Not at all.

    #TeamCody
     
  3. LOL!!!!!!
     
  4. TopDawg Legend

    Where do we go from here?

    back to Cody Kessler? Why not? Hard to believe we've come full circle already, but I don't think he could play any worse than the guys that we've started so far...Hogan was a big steaming pile. He was amazingly awful.. It's almost as if it gets a little worse by the week. I think it has to be coaching. Jackson is gonna get himself fired, and I believe he would have survived a 3 or 4 win season. Poor guy isn't even gonna come close.

    Got to agree with ya SAS. Cody never looked as bad as what we've seen so far this season...Maybe he can save Hue's ass. It sure doesn't look like Hogan can. My gawd, where the hell was he throwin the ball??? That was ridiculous. Completely inept. I question whether he could make a CFL roster. His throws reminded me of Tebow...

    Cody didn't win, be he did manage to keep us in games. Hell, I miss the likes Bob Griffin and Jason Campbell at this point. Never thought I'd say that, but these Browns are special. What a humiliation this entire fiasco has become for Haslam. We really aren't that competitive. The NFL's worst team by a good margin. There's no way Jimmy gonna stay patient with this dumpster fire.... C'mon Browns, just try to find a guy that isn't embarrassing. Is that too much for fans to ask?

    It's gotta have much to do with coaching/scheme/play calling....There's no way we could add the talent that we added to the roster in the offseason, and have the team be worse...It just doesn't make sense.

    Clearly the QB's have sucked. We can all see that....I think the coaches are equally at fault though...And it's pretty obvious the front office doesn't have a clue about what the hell they are doing...Some things just never change. This organization, if you can call it that, finds a way....They just refuse to give up that title as the NFL's worst. Even though we are the only team that hasn't been to London yet, it's hard to believe the NFL is sending this product over anyway. They've still never had a game over in London involving two winning teams. Scheduling the Browns is not a good way to go about changing that....I have a feeling they will be known over there as the Cleveland Wankers soon enough...That seems like a lock.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  5. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Correct.

    Browns are third in pass attempts. Last in completion percentage. First in interceptions thrown. Last in QB rating. That's on the coaching.

    Browns are averaging 4.2 YPC rushing the football. Duke Johnson Jr. is averaging 5.6 YPC. Overall, only 3.9 YPC from their running backs, but that's Crowell pulling down the average (3.4 YPC). Leaving Crowell in, abandoning the run, that's on the coaching.

    Browns have gone through: Bob Griffin, Josh McCown, Cody Kessler, Charlie Whitehurst, Brock Osweiler, DeShone Kizer, Kevin Hogan - at the quarterback position with a guy who's "specialty" is quarterback and who has raved about at least three of them (Griffin, Kessler, Kizer). That's on the coaching.
     
  6. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    STEP 1:

    [​IMG]

    This is the guy who can fix this mess (and no, that's not me in my armchair).

    Scot McCloughan - personal demons and all - may be the best Hail Mary we have before the Haslam's go nuclear.

    McCloughan has been in this position before - he joined the Seattle Seahawks as a senior personnel executive to John Schneider's general manager and went on to help design the youngest roster to win a Super Bowl, one of the best defenses in NFL history, and a juggernaut that still continues to win games.

    Bring Scot in to the organization in the same capacity - a "qualified football person" to Sashi's GM role. He's got the experience with young rosters. He's a terrific scout - his resume is littered with All Pro and HOF players. He's volatile - so a consultant role is probably the best for all parties involved. Get someone like this involved in making those top five picks in 2018, because they need to nail them (including the first overall pick which should be a quarterback).
     
  7. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    STEP 2:

    [​IMG]

    Hire an offensive coordinator and strip play-calling duties from Hue Jackson. Hue is, by all accounts, beloved by players and coaches alike. That's an admirable attribute to have in your head coach.

    Hue's also, by all evidence presented, a terrible play-caller, a horrific game-planner, and an atrocious evaluator of quarterbacks.

    Now, this may have to wait until the offseason when more names - and more qualified folks - are available, but the interim solution would be to promote Kirby Wilson to this role and give him an extended audition for the job. As the Running Game Coordinator, he's (1) a superfluous position manager right now and (2) would be inclined to feature the running game. A heavy dose of the running game could benefit this team in a number of ways.

    It will also allow us to evaluate the running backs currently on the roster. As of today, I can think of 3-4 running back prospects outside of Saquon Barkley who'd be upgrades. That's not to knock Isaiah Crowell or Duke Johnson Jr. because we simply haven't seen enough of them to know if they have what it takes - specifically Duke.

    The other immediate benefit is easing pressure of whomever lines up under center for the rest of the season. What we also might see is an adaptive coach. Hue refuses to give up the all-verts long-game passing the football, and throwing a ridiculously high amount. A fresh perspective may see that we don't have the receivers or quarterback to make that happen. We do have three young running backs and an expensive offensive line.

    With Hue as offensive coordinator, we've got 1-21 over the past 22 games. It's not like it can get worse.
     
    IrishDawg42 likes this.
  8. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    STEP 3:

    [​IMG]

    The wide receiver position has been much-maligned in this short (doesn't feel like it, does it?) season. Despite signing a top free agent, drafting four in the 2016 draft, and making an early-season trade for a receiver, they've yet to find suitable players, instead relying heavily on practice squad pick ups (Leslie Jordan, Bryce Treggs).

    Bryant's a 6'4" 215 pound big-play guy who's unhappy in his current situation.



    He's a great fit for what this offense is trying to do - throw it often, throw it deep. He's probably not going to cost an incredible amount in draft capital, and it's at the point where the Browns need to start using those assets to win immediately.

    One bonus: we weaken a division rival by taking one of their better players on offense.

    Bryant on this team would allow Hue to put Kizer back in the lineup and see if he's capable of making that deep ball work.
     
    Lyman likes this.
  9. IrishDawg42 Legend Manager Browns Buckeyes Fighting Irish

    I LOVE Step 2...

    Here's where I take issue with step 1 and step 3..

    We already have a demon on the suspended list in Josh Gordon.

    Your suggestion is a front office guy who has lost (at least) 3 jobs in less than a decade to alcoholism, and his first call would be to acquire a clone of Josh Gordon (meaning off the field issues) as someone to come in and take the lead role of the WR room? What happens when/if Gordon returns? Do you cut one of them or get them an apartment together so they can sponsor each other on their drug and alcohol issues? I am not making light of these sicknesses. I hope any person can grow from the darkness, but putting three current problem people together most likely won't return a great outcome.

    I might suggest using McCloughan's scouting agency so that you can utilize what he does best without any baggage.

    Now...again, Step 2!! Aces!! I'm all for it, let's implement it NOW so we have a couple of weeks to work out some kinks before the bye week...
     
    SAS likes this.
  10. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Desperate times, my friend.

    I understand where you're coming from, but keep in mind I'm suggesting these a immediate fixes and no necessarily long-term goals. In fact, I think a shorter, less-formal contract with McCloughan is ideal for that reason.

    Until Josh Gordon is reinstated and on the active 53-man roster, I'm not making personnel decisions with him in mind. So with respect to that... Martavis Bryant is in the final year of his rookie deal, so he's looking to get paid. He knows he won't get Brown money and is not getting the chances to boost that stat line and get the bigger contract in 2018.

    You float the Steelers a fourth, third, or second-round pick and see what happens. If he produces and stays clean, you re-sign him. If he produces but struggles with coaches or off-field rules, let him walk in free agency and re-coup the compenstatory draft pick down the road. If he fails to produce, you won't want him anyway.
     
  11. Immediate fixes when the Browns are 0-6 and going no where
     
  12. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Immediate fixes that correct the trajectory of a team going nowhere.

    McCloughan doesn't need to be a lifer in my organization to correct the team. He served as the Senior Personnel Executive in Seattle for three seasons, drafted one of the most talented teams in the NFL, and won a Super Bowl. How have the Seahawks been drafting since Scot left?
     
  13. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Also stopper: "Blow everything up and start over."
     
  14. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    Option B - Do Nothing

    Probably not the option most of us want today, but there's a chance this is still the actual Plan as laid out originally by Haslam & Co. In fact, there are several factors that point to it being the case. Let's start with those:
    1. The desire to win football games.

      We hear that A LOT out of Hue Jackson, but we don't see it evidenced on game day. The Browns are woefully inept at throwing the football, but do so at an alarming rate (third in the NFL in attempts). I don't buy for a second that it's all because we're "playing catch up", either.

      We also routinely see the running game abandoned, despite respectable numbers and an investment in the offensive line. I've mentioned this before, but it's still worth noting. Deshaun Waton is getting 26 carries per game from his running backs. Mitch Trubisky in his two starts has gotten 38 carries per game out of his running backs. The Browns are running it 16 times per game with running backs.

      Taking it further, Goff (having success in his second season) is getting 26 carries per game from his running backs (including utility player Tavon Austin). Future HOF'er, Carson Wentz, getting 25 carries per game out of his backs.

      Being his own offensive coordinator, Hue can directly influence this and chooses not to. Further, he refuses to delegate play-calling to one of his assistants.


    2. The execution of the draft.

      Looking at the state of the roster, did the 2016 draft give us anyone you look towards the future as a Pro Bowl caliber player? Absolutely not. And the team has been in a position to take difference makers. Ignore Wentz and Watson (we'll get to them), but in 2016 they had a shot at Joey Bosa. Pass. Ezekiel Elliott. Pass. Jalen Ramsey, Will Fuller, Michael Thomas, Su'a Cravens, Jordan Howard, Dak Prescott... pass, pass, passeroo.

      And here's the deal - the algorithm they're using to determine draft strategy still looks like this:

      Draft Picks > Players

      The recent Cleveland Browns Textgate 5.0 would allude to that, actually. Jackson texts Watson "get ready". Suddenly, Malik Hooker doesn't go in the Top 10 and he's available (Hue would later say he wanted to take Hooker at #12), then Houston offers the deal for Watson (who Hue insinuated they were going to take initially), and the Browns make the move for the trade.

      Now, the 2017 NFL Draft looks more solid for the team. Myles Garrett is a stud. David Njoku looks like a very nice offensive weapon to use. Now, while it's still too early to "grade out" both of these drafts, it seems that they're building towards something - building the team with anticipation of taking the franchise guy (QB) in Year 3.

    3. The QB carousel.

      If the Browns wanted to win, they would have signed Colin Kaepernick in the offseason. They wouldn't have danced around the QB issue in the offseason, giving reps to guys like Brock Osweiler. They would have started Cody Kessler who, at worst, is a game manager. If they truly believe in DeShone Kizer as the future of the franchise, they would have sat him - as the other franchises do - until he was either ready or the coach had no other choice. They would have put more weapons around him to help him in his development. Referencing back to Point #1 - they would have run the football more.

      Then, they yank him in favor of Hogan. I 100% supported the move to sit DeShone because the game was too fast and too much for him. But in his post game and in his press meeting (not a conference, per the team for some reason) today, he said if he makes a change, it's back to DeShone. If this was a one-week hook, he should have never taken DeShone out in the first place.

      If they were concerned about winning games, run the football, play sound defense, and put the ball in the hands of your game manager who completes 66% of his passes, is efficient with the football, and doesn't commit turnovers.

      Instead, he's going week-to-week with two guys who have proven to be inaccurate and turn-over prone. And we're potentially flopping them week-to-week, meaning that no rhythm or timing is going to be secured and no game-to-game growth will get to occur.
    So it could be that we're "on track". That this is all the growing pains of setting a team up to flop multiple season in a row. You add role players and solid starters in Year 1 (2016 draft). You get the centerpiece of your defense in Year 2 (2017 draft). You get the QB savior in Year 3 (Josh Rosen). And you change fundamentally some of the bone-headed things you're doing today (70-30 pass-run ratio, game management, etc.) and flip the switch, so to speak. You're competitive in Year 3 and then push for a post-season appearance in Year 4 after filling the 'missing pieces' through a last draft and free agency.

    Could be?

    Now, the flip side to this argument is that this wasn't by design and that they're truly just that inept. In which case, nuke the whole thing and start over.
     
    Lyman likes this.
  15. SAS M.V.P. Rams Chargers

    STEP 1B:

    [​IMG]

    You get an under-study to the senior GM and let him take over once the incumbent moves on. The Peyton/Haslam connection has long been rumored as something that could happen. I think Peyton would want a much more stable situation to come into, but at the same time, you would know the owner has your back completely and you also have a ton of reasons: boat loads of draft picks, trucks of cash, opportunity to be the next LeBron James of Cleveland.

    Obviously, hitching Peyton to a senior GM would require a re-structure of the front office today as McCloughan (or whomever) would be less of a mentor/guide to Sashi and more of a mentor/developer of Peyton.
     
    TopDawg likes this.
  16. TopDawg Legend

    I love the 1B plan...Dude knows what it takes to be an effective QB, and I've been dreaming of the Haslam'/Manning deal ever since I first heard it.. I have no doubt that even long after his playing days are over, Peyton Manning could be the key to solving Cleveland's never ending QB search...That alone, would make it worth whatever it takes....

    I would love to know however, what the real story was with Hue's draft day text to Watson...Maybe Paul and Sashi need to check those GIGANTIC ego's, and give a listen to people that know the game...Just a thought.
     
    SAS likes this.
  17. Campbell Administrator Manager Commissioner

    I can't wait to play this game, lol.

    I gots some thoughts on it! :notes:
     
  18. TopDawg Legend

    Believe it or not, I actually admire what Hue Jackson is attempting with this offense. He simply doesn't have the personnel though. There was an article in Cleveland.com that echoed the exact same thing I told my friends on Sunday. The Browns are trying to run the offense that the 99 Rams ran....Just a couple glitches. One, we don't have anyone even close to Kurt Warner. Same can be said for Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce. That team was stacked with HoFr's...It's a great offense if that sort of talent is on hand, but obviously the 2017 Browns are a little ways away...

    Hue needs to simplify things for his young QB's...He's setting them up for failure. We abandon the run early every week. Without that threat, this offense doesn't work...It really isn't that complicated.
     
  19. kenibals Home Town Favorite Browns

    I'm with SAS. WTF happened with Cody. I'm not in love with him, long term, but "the plan" was to allow our shiny new rookie sit and watch and learn while Kessler kept the team in games. I thought that was a good plan, but it quickly dissintegrated, as Hue flipped to Ossy, then to Kizer. All in 3 weeks.

    There is a sincere lack of "a plan", let alone "the plan".

    Hogan doesn't appear to be even the keyholder, after that debacle, but I still believe Kizer should be sidelined, so he can gain some distance from the failure that is the Browns.

    Did I hear that Kessler said he wanted to be traded? I thought I read that about week 2. Could be mistaken, but I remember at the time thinking, what the hell happened between Hue and him?

    Now rumors the FO is talking to "Football People" about a front office position. I could get behind that.
     
  20. No doubt you blow it up....1-21 proves its not working
     

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