I agree with that 100%. I still am not sold on either Wentz or Watson. And I realize the situations are completely different. In fact, you're making my case... They should have kept the QB position untouched (or even draft Kizer and at a minimum redshirt him) and continued building the team. If Kessler/Hogan didn't ascend to a Pro Bowl level player, either turn it over to a seasoned Kizer or make the big move in the draft to get that guy.
This is the biggest failure of 2017. Kizer looks so lost that even if he eventually gets it, it won't be after a few starts or even a few seasons. He'll need Aaron Rodgers type seasoning (Rodgers sat for three full seasons before taking over), which would put us in Year 5 of the rebuild - which should be Super Bowl contention year. So not only did they not stick with the plan of building the roster and grooming the rookie, they exposed the rookie and now have even fewer answers than they did at the end of 2016. If Kevin Hogan can't make the next 11 games competitive - and I would say win three at a minimum - there's a fantastic chance we're going to draft in the Top 3 picks and we'll end up taking a new QB. Which hits the reset again back at least a season.
I think it's high time everyone realizes that a QB guru/whisperer/whatever doesn't exist...it's right up there with Unicorns and Browns Super Bowl Trophies. They are fun to talk about, but they are also myths and/or dreams. (2)/(3) I agree, someone needs to demand he gives up those duties. I have never really liked a HC being the OC...even if the HC calls plays. The head coach has too many duties to successfully implement them while organizing a game plan for Sunday. Someone needs to hold this team accountable for the penalties and turnovers and that is the HC job...but he is too busy implementing a game plan to worry about such trivial things.
In hindsight I agree with you. It isn't that I am blind to the issues surrounding this team. I am sick of the tirades of calling for people heads and calling them busts after 5 games. It gets very old, sorry. You are free to continue making the posts, I am not asking anyone to stop, not that you would if I did. I am simply tired of reading the same rehashed crap every day and am leaning towards not reading it any longer...that's all. Just as you are free to post them, I am free to add how childish and annoying I find them. We agree on many things concerning the Browns right now..I just have to search for the posts trying to talk about where we need to go from here, between all the non-sense.
This is exactly where I hope they don't panic... If they end up in the top 3 picks, I still hope and pray that pick will be Saquon Barkley. He is the only true franchise changer in this upcoming draft, that includes the plethora of QBs that may or may not be available when they decide their future. To me, Barkley is as sure a top pick as Myles Garrett was to most of you. When someone like that comes along, it really shouldn't matter what position he plays. If the #1 pick comes to the Browns again, they shouldn't hesitate in letting Crowell walk and they should ignore all offers for #1 unless it is to move back to #2, because that #2 is looking to draft a QB...That's my opinion. I can't look at this QB class and point to "the guy"...When I can't do that, I will NOT endorse one being taken #1 or even #3 overall. It sets the franchise back too far passing on better talent that can help the team grow.
In fairness, he's on the bench now, so I can temper my outrage. The trouble is that this is such an immediate reaction league. And he looked so bad. And now he's likely shut down for the year, unless injuries take Hogan out of the game. So the body of work is tiny but awful. Even if they take Barkley, it's unlikely they don't touch the QB position unless Hogan plays lights out (doubtful). Meaning Kizer's window is already closing or his development will take so long by the time he's ready, this team might not be (or this regime might be gone).
Indeed, especially after Hue decided Kizer was 'his guy' and appeared willing to have his timetable for the rebuild sped up considerably with that decision.
August 29, 2017 - October 11, 2017 I agree with Sobleski - and others - who've echoed this thought. Kizer at #52 was a value pick (much like Kessler at #93). You don't wait until the mid-second round to grab the guy who you think is the QB savior. You either get them for the value proposition and develop them through hard work (Derek Carr, Drew Brees), or you get lucky (Russell Wilson, Tom Brady).
And I am all for yet another second round QB, as of today. That could change when I start actually "studying" the QBs, but as of today, I don't see a QB I would be willing to bet the farm on. In 2017, I was not willing to take one at #1 overall. I didn't want one at #12 overall, but conceded if they were taking a first round QB, I would not be upset at all if they took Deshaun Watson. I was ecstatic when they waited until the second round to take Kizer. I am still very excited about the possibilities for the future with him. I have not labeled him anything like many of you have. The problem for me is, teams take a QB just because they need one. So, the position least likely to succeed becomes your #1 pick of the draft and you don't grow in that off season because of it. I don't like to reach for any pick and history tells us, taking a QB in the first round is likely to be a reach. There are obvious exceptions, but I don't see that obvious exception in the 2018 draft. I was very excited about this crop of prospects and the more I see of them, the less excited I am becoming. What I am excited about is Saquon Barkley. If they have the opportunity to draft this kid, they need to take it, imho.
SAS. Really nice encapsolation of the steps, that illustrate the reason for our frustration. I assume for the sake of brevity, you left out the loss of talent we have engineered at the FO, that also contributed to the continuing ineptitude. I would expand on your list of woes to illustrate Hue's failures as a HC. I still believe Hue should stay, but what is clear, is his choice to "be the OC" has clearly impacted his HC responsibilities. The house cleaning of the various coaches and co-ordinators, is nothing less than a glaring example of Hue not spending his time mentoring, co-ordinating, and developing rapport with "his team" (the staff, not the players or QB). This failure to spend the appropriate time and energy with his staff, clearly contributed to their having to go. I also agree with you Irish, "no one is a QB whisperer", and QBs are the most frequent "miss" choice in drafts, over time. That said, it again falls on Hue to stop making these idiotic statements about his QBs. "This is The Guy" statements are automatically foolish, because of what you stated, relative to the absolute certantity, that nobody can "know" that. In Hue's defense, having made those statements, he backed himself into a corner, and simultaneously placed his latest "Guy" in a remarkably vulnerable postion, psychologically. I agree, he should have the strength of self, to work through this setback, but it is undeniably a refutation of Hue's other idiotic statement, that he'd stick with him through it all. No need to have painted it so black & white. Like we always hear from coaches, "it's a process" and one has to remain flexible, and be ready to amend your plans. Definitive statements leave little room for that. "Trust me".... Well I'd like to, and in some small measure, I do. I don't think kicking Hue to the curb, is the answer, but his audition as HC isn't going well, and he needs to demonstrate his understanding of that, by stepping up to and accepting 'his" responsibilities, as HC, to guide the team, and more particularly the staff, to show he "can" be our HC going forward. If he hasn't recognized that, then Slam needs to make it clear, or yes we should do the unthinkable, and look for our next HC. God, I hope Hue isn't so stubborn, or shortsighted, that he won't see the absolute "need" to become a true HC, and leave the dotting of I's and crossing of T's, to a staff he works with and developes, as he demands the same from them as it relates to the players. Hue, please check your ego, and sieze the opportunity, to develope yourself, the way you talk about developing players. They are first time NFL players, and need that development. So do you.
Nobody is assuming they'd have stepped into our situation, and have it the same as Philly or Houston respectively. But it is pretty simple to assume we'd have been in a helluva lot better shape on the QB front, then where the Kessler/Kizer plan has taken us, right?...I think it's ultra safe to assume that. Seriously Irish....What are you missing? We are NOWHERE NEAR a franchise QB, and we've personally had a hand in the Eagles and Texans acquiring their franchise QB....It's sickening, but it's not complicated....I'm not on here griping about the defense. It's about finding a QB to lead the Cleveland Browns. Don't you feel someone within the organization needs to be held accountable? I sure as hell do...You and I were both pretty adamant in 2016 that the Browns should take Carson Wentz at #2. They didn't, and look where we still are? Collecting losses and spinning the tires. Hue and Sashi have gone after Bob Griffin, Cody Kessler and Deshone Kizer.....That's a QB nightmare. All we need is to bring back Weeden and Johnny to complete this circus of ineptness...
By the way... If I'm Kizer, I have wonder if I'll ever see the field again. Our track record on QBs is dismal, to say the least. We have seen this movie over and over. We have Hoyer, we bring in Johnny, and Hoyer leaves. No he isn't a franchise QB, but .........? Then we have McCown, and bring in RGIII and Captain Cody Kessler. We discard both RGIII and McCown: who needs a veteran? Then we have "trust me" Kessler, and roll the dice on Kizer, and bring in the veteran? Osweiller. Get rid of the vet, hand the keys to the "deveopemental Kizer", and "oh wait" we have another guy who's been invisible, Hogan. Last year was QB by doctor's orders. I always believed they should have kept McCown. You cannot find a better mentor, veteran guy. It would have made sense to draft Kizer, if McCown was still here. Now we have a total of 2 years of "experience" to lean on. Great! Hue has endorsed and abandoned; RGIII, Kessler, Osweiller and now Kizer. All guys he tried to convince us could be "the man". Why would I believe, he has anymore commitment to me, if I am Kizer? All evidence points to getting yet another QB next year. What's frustrating is we will then go into next year without a true veteran QB, yet again, along with the shiny new QB drafted. What's wrong with this picture? God help you DeShone. You may have what it takes, but you've come to Cleveland, and we just make lists of QBs here, we don't make QBs.
Question. If Hoyer, McCown, even Kessler had been QB, would we have a couple of Ws? I would have been happy to see any of them under center, while Kizer learned. In my silly world, I would have wanted to keep McCown (mentor), start Kessler (game manager), and let Kizer live with McCown to learn. Now that would have been "A PLAN". Hogan or Kessler could run the show, McCown could be the emergency vet, and Kizer could learn without the pressure and weight of being responsible for the team's success.
Irish, I know you are still holding out hope for Kizer, but he truly needs to be benched. I'm seeing all the exact same things I thought, way back before the Browns drafted him. The kid is intelligent, and he has the physical tools but he's struggling on a level like I've never seen. And I think based on his performance so far, it's perfectly natural for Browns fans to call for the back-up plan, and question whether we ever should have drafted DK at all. If he had no time to throw, I wouldn't be so critical, but he has plenty of time, yet still holds it longer than Kessler, and we don't need to rehash that travesty....
Everybody here used to laugh and rip on Red rifle...who was coached by ? So what made the notion Hue was some whiz OC or QB coach? Also, lets ease up on the Barkley talk....he hasnt played any good opponents yet this yr and is still struggling a little bit...Cook didnt struggle as bad as this guy in his career over the last 2 yrs...just stating facts
He needs to look no further than Andy Reid who is probably the greatest coach in the game right behind Belichick. No one is going to be able to reproduce what Bill has done in New England, but Reid is the closest thing. He gave up complete responsibility on personnel and front office side of things, still loves creating plays for the offense and installing his game plan, but has an offensive coordinator call the plays and handle that aspect on game day. #TakeNoteHue
We never let him play in any of our reindeer games either....Then one foggy Sunday afternoon, the red rifle sure showed us a thing or two...
