It's October 2nd, and it already feels like this thing has come off the rails. All reports are that of massive dissention between the coaching staff and the front office. The quarterback is lost. The revamped O-line can't get the running game going. The defense is an embarrassment. Yep. It's Cleveland Browns football...Is it any wonder Mike Pettine's "PLAY LIKE A BROWN" mantra, never took off? smh...good lord. Assuming reports are true, and I have to believe they are based on the remark Hue Jackson made last week when asked if the team was built to win games now. His response of, "you'll have to ask the General Manager", speaks volumes. If that wasn't a shot, I don't know what was...So assuming the FO and coaches are unable find harmony, what should Haslam do now? Should he try to be patient and stay the course, or should he let heads roll, and reset for the 738th time? Legit questions... Is this putrid start to our season more because we are playing Kizer to soon (which seems obvious), or is it a much deeper overall complete team fail from Haslam all the way down to the water boys? I'm at a loss...Where do we go from here?
I guess it all depends on whom or what you point the finger at as the problem. I have a hard time blaming it on talent. I do agree that youth is hurting the team, but the Browns have had a ton of picks and have been largely lauded for their moves in the draft. Yes, they made the decision to trade Carson Wentz for a bevvy of draft picks. Their 2016 draft class produced 7 - 8 starters (once Garrett returns, Nassib will move to backup), but they got: C. Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib*, S. Coleman, Schobert, Louis, Kindred, and DeValve. Only one of those players (Ogbah) was a full-time starter in 2016.
At the very least, I'd say it's time for Kizer to sit and regroup. He's obviously overwhelmed, and I don't think it signals the end if he's demoted, at least until this team can find it's bearings....The problem is, I don't think Hue Jackson has ANY intention of allowing his QB to take a step back and observe. It looks like we're going to have to watch this bullshit every week. I really wanted to have faith in Hue Jackson, but between his in-game decisions and his track record in general, I'm really losing patience fast.
Again, this season, they took a ton of players and are currently only starting two - Peppers and Kizer - with a third expected to start once he's back in the lineup (Garrett). For 2018, however, that number of starters will have to climb. Brantley and Ogunjobi probably move into the starter roles, as well as Howard Wilson and maybe Njoku?
I have no love left for Kizer, as everyone should know by now, but I do put an equal amount of blame on Hue. As you said, Kizer had no business starting. As I alluded to in the GBU thread, I honestly think Hue went rogue on the script (The Plan) which is what has driven a wedge between F/O and coaches. Cody Kessler was the analytic darling at QB who was supposed to sit and learn. Maybe Hue never fully believed in him and thought he could save Bob Griffin. In fact, I'm sure that's how the conversation went: Sashi: "Hue... we're taking Kessler. He's going to be our future QB." Hue: "He needs to be developed... give me a veteran to work with." Sashi: "Done." Hue (internally): "I'm going to fix Bob Griffin and we'll never have to see Kessler." Injuries threw a wrench in that early in 2016 and Kessler saw the field. And guess what, he looked pretty damn good for a rookie on a bad team who wasn't supposed to play. No one's ever going to think he's Cam Newton, but he's not supposed to be. He's exactly what the analytics want - accurate, chain-moving QB who gives his team the best probability of winning. He's the exact opposite of what Hue Jackson wants - a game manager QB with limited arm strength. Hue probably threw a tantrum to get Kizer with the expectation he'd be "developed" behind the other guys and, once coached up, would elevate the overall offense because he had the physical tools Kessler lacked. F/O acquiesces to it but Hue goes rogue and starts him over Kessler (and everyone else) burying the F/O's guy on the inactive list so he can't even sniff he field. Now, predictably, his hand-picked QB has failed and tensions are building.
Re: Kessler... Look, I'm not going to re-hash every stat and pull out every claim. What needs to be answered though is what the hell happened between 2016 and 2017 there? At the time of drafting him, Hue said: He's everything you look for in a quarterback. Trust me. He's going to have the opportunity to ascend. After his first couple starts, Hue said: This guy's playing as good as anyone I've coached. After a couple more starts, which included Hue inexplicably benching him, Hue said: Maybe we've been too harsh on him. He's made some jumps in some areas, done some good things. In the 2017 offseason they trade for a throw-away quarterback (Osweiler) and draft a long-shot project (Kizer). Kessler remains the top option on the depth chart. During training camp: Hue remarks about noticeable improvement in Cody's arm strength. Allows him first shot in the preseason. Allegedly, Kessler has a poor training camp primarily due to taking "too many sacks". Nevertheless, Hue defends the sacks putting the blame elsewhere. During preseason: Kessler outplays all of the other quarterbacks, except Kevin Hogan (playing mostly against fourth-string players). Kessler only takes one sack live. Kessler is demoted to third string. Kizer is named the starter. In first four games: DeShone Kizer posts the worst QB rating of a Browns starter through first four games. Ever. DeShone Kizer gets sacked at a rate of 7.2%, despite having the most time to throw the football in the NFL. DeShone Kizer leads the NFL in turnovers. The Browns are 0-4. So... what the hell happened?!
And what does Cody do? Sulk? Demand a trade? Nope. His day is coming at some point? Sunday, October 8th sounds pretty damn good to me.
Anything sounds better than Kizer right now...As much as I hate watching Cody K ball, I must admit it's a better brand of football than what we are watching this year.... And that pretty much says it all. The NFL is chalked full of surprises every week, except on the north shore of Lake Erie. Somehow time stands still up there. The only constant that this league can point to is the wretched state of the Cleveland Browns....Sadly. I'm not even sure if we have bottomed out yet, or if there even is a bottom to this never ending slide...
Sashi just tries to be safe...He can't pull the trigger on the real blue chip first round QB prospect. He gives us plenty of excuses why, but at the end of the dat the Browns still don't have a frickin quarterback!!! I'm not gonna mention the "could have and would haves", but so far I have to give this Cleveland FO a fail. Their WR draft last season speaks for itself...,.We are the best at acquiring picks, and the worst at identifying talent worthy of those picks...It's sickening.
To be fair, which blue chip QB prospect has he had a shot at? In the first round, choices were: Wentz (2016), Mahomes, Watson (2017). Jared Goff, the best prospect from 2016, was taken No. 1 overall. Wentz looks solid as a pro, but his career QB rating is 81.4. His QB rating this year is 90.5. Cody Kessler's was 92.3. Wentz took the Eagles from a second-place finish at 7-9 in the NFC East to a last-place finish at 7-9 in the NFC East. He's got fundamental mechanical issues in his delivery. After those two, the options were Christian Hackenberg, Jacoby Brissett, Cody Kessler, Connor Cook, Dak Prescott, Cardale Jones, Kevin Hogan, Nate Sudfeld, Jake Ruddock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel and Brandon Doughty. Of that group, he walked away with two (Kessler, Hogan). The only one who's an intended starter is Dak Prescott, who would probably have had middling success almost any where else. He was a running QB in college who got a DUI weeks before the NFL Draft. Without a stellar running game, he's got a 90.5 QB rating on a playoff-caliber roster with the best offensive line in football. Reminder: Cody Kessler's QB rating is 92.3. In 2017, more of the same. Yes, they technically had a shot at Trubisky, but at No. 1 overall and over Myles Garrett would have been tough to stomach. He also has yet to start... we'll see what happens this Sunday as he was just named the starter today. Again, technically would have had a shot at Mahomes, but only at No. 1 overall. No starts, perceived project, and not likely to unseat Alex Smith on what figures to be a Superbowl-caliber team. After that was: Deshaun Watson, DeShone Kizer, Davis Webb, C.J. Beathard, Josh Dobbs, Nathan Peterman, Brad Kaaya, and Chad Kelly. This past week against a surprisingly bad Tennessee team, Watson looked All Pro. Prior to that, he was 49 of 81 (61.3%) for 528 yards (6.6 YPA), 3 TDs, 3 INTs, and 9 sacks. A rating of 77.5. That's with a playoff-caliber roster and much better skill position players. Yes, he's better than Kizer, but so are 36 other NFL QBs right now. I'm definitely not ready to anoint Watson as a future HOF'er like the media did with Wentz last season. No one else has taken a snap of that group - one of the most panned and chastised QB classes in a while. So again... over that two year stretch, which QB would you have taken? Which one would you have liked to have taken? Quite literally, the ranking almost has to be Goff, [EDIT] Prescott, Kessler, Wentz, Watson, Brissett by default. Sashi got the [EDIT] third-best QB over the past two seasons with a third round pick and his dope of a head coach benched him.
I would. My 2017 Draft looked like this: Garrett, Hooker/Howard, Baker, Hunt, Kupp. Imagine this team with those players. Even more enjoyable... imagine this team without DeShone Kizer.
I guess you would put the F/O and talent ahead of the coaches/players on the blame scale? That's fine... no telling who's right and wrong. It's probably a mixture of everything, tbh. Me personally, I think the F/O has done a pretty admirable job (outside of wide receiver) of adding talent through the draft and free agency. 2016 1 - Corey Coleman, starter 2 - Emmanuel Ogbah, starter 3 - Carl Nassib, role player/rotation 3 - Shon Coleman, starter 3 - Cody Kessler, former-starter and best QB on the team 4 - Joe Schobert, starter 4 - Ricardo Louis, starter 4 - Derrick Kindred, starter 4 - Seth DeValve, starter 5 - Jordan Payton, cut 5 - Spencer Drango, back-up lineman 5 - Rashard Higgins, slot receiver 5 - Trey Caldwell, cut 7 - Scooby Wright, cut 2017 1 - Myles Garrett, starter 1 - Jabrill Peppers, starter 1 - David Njoku, back-up TE 2 - DeShone Kizer, starter 3 - Larry Ogunjobi, role player/rotation 4 - Howard Wilson, projected starter (IR due to knee injury) 5 - Roderick Johnson, back-up lineman 6 - Caleb Brantley, role player/rotation 7 - Zane Gonzalez, starter 7 - Matthew Dayes, back-up RB The players of note they moved on from were: Gary Barnidge, Joe Haden, DeMario Davis (traded), Cam Erving (traded), Brock Osweiler, Josh McCown, Andrew Hawkins. Barnidge was a good dude, but declined and was part of a crowded, young position group. Ditto Haden and McCown. Davis hurts a bit, especially since Calvin Pryor bombed. Erving and Osweiler were addition by subtraction. Hawkins retired. The 2016 offseason releases were bad ones, I'm not going to deny that. It was also a pretty obviously tear-down and tank season, though, so it was an intended consequence of The Plan.
If you eliminate all the interceptions he's thrown, he's still the least-accurate passer in the NFL. If you eliminate all the points scored, the Browns are 4-0. If you eliminate all the coaching/front office changes, the Browns have been more stable than the Patriots. Seriously, why did you even post such a garbage take? And in this thread, no less? Consider the source. In fact, maybe test this dude?
Re: Dropped Passes Ahh, the crutch of the lazy QB defender. Let's take a look. Official stats for Week 4 aren't submitted yet, but I counted two in the game. Let's just use the offical stats through Week 3, though, since they're - you know - official. Cleveland: 5 Cleveland, 2016: 28 Per game average, 2017: 1.67 Per game average, 2016: 1.75 But wait! There's more. For the lazy QB defender go-to "Kenny Britt's a bum". Britt's career catch rate: 54.6% Britt's 2016 catch rate: 61.3% (career high) Britt's 2017 catch rate: 30.3% So either he came completely apart after posting his best season ever - and not just in catch rate, but also yards, targets, and receptions. Or maybe, just maybe, the NFL's worst QB has something to do with it.
I honestly don't know how you can blame Kiser for Kenny Britt's performance thus far. Kiser hasn't been very good, but Britt is an NFL WR, and he's paid well to catch the football, which he is failing miserably at. That's not on the QB, sorry. I know your gonna say, the throws are high, or low, or whatever the hell, so who cares. You've accused me plenty of making excuses for Kiser, and then ya flip it around and and do the same thing for Britt. The ball hits the receiver in the hands, he's expected to make the catch...Period. Really? First of all, you can't just gloss over the WR fails. Those are glaring. They took freaking FOUR of them, which is unheard of, and they whiffed on all of them,with the possible exception of Coleman, though that's far from certain...But beyond that, what have they done that's so admirable? We are 1-19 under this watch and looking worse each week...Were those O-lineman worth the big money? Was Jaime Collins worth it? Obviously Britt wasn't.... Too early to judge this year's draft, but last years is not looking that great, especially considering the number of choices... I'm just saying, we've had an opportunity each year under this regime, and they would rather trade down than pull the trigger on the top QB....Yes, Wentz. Yes, Watson, Maholmes. Yes, Trubisky...Not saying they are all studs, just that we are the most starved QB team in history and we passed on them all.
To be very clear, I am not excusing Kenny Britt. In fact, I've called him out a few times. What's ridiculous to me is people trying to assign 18+ drops to him as an excuse for why Kizer is a bum. DeShone Kizer throwing to wide receivers not named Kenny Britt: 54 targets, 21 catches (38.9%), 268 yards (5.0 YPA), 1 TD, 6 INTs, 14 first downs Official stats in after Week 4 - Browns have 8 drops. Total. They're giving their quarterback more time to throw to anyone else in the NFL. They've only been asked to run 84 times (26th in the NFL), yet have 4 rushing TDs (9th in the NFL), and are tied for 11th in rush efficiency (22.6% of first downs converted on runs). Let me ask that a different way... how do the Colts and Bengals games look with Jamie Collins in the lineup? Defense allowed 19 PPG with him in the lineup against teams with a 5-3 win record. Defense has allowed 31 PPG with him out of the lineup against teams with a 2-6 record. We agree. I'd cut him to send a message. So what is it? Too early to judge Watson, Mahomes, and Trubisky? Or we should have taken them? Wentz? Really?
Yeah, the ranking almost has to be that. Oh, except no it doesn't. lol! Your love for Cody K. is not healthy. Nobody would put Cody Kessler 3rd on that list...Nobody would even put him on the list. We are talking about the top young QB's...In all our QB talks prior to last year's draft, Kessler was never even mentioned. Now you rank him 3rd out of the last two years of drafted QB's. That's just ridiculous.. FTR: I was very much in favor of drafting Carson Wentz last year....I also was very high on Mitch Trubisky. I was down on Kizer. Down on Watson. High on Maholmes....But none of that matters. I'm not a high paid team executive. These guys are paid to get it right. Since we selected Kiser, I got on board with it. He has a lot of things to like. Unfortunately, on Sundays, the reason's that I didn't like him in college are showing up everywhere. Questionable with decision making and accuracy....I'm not ready to pull the plug, but soo far this is what I saw at Notre Dame, minus the occassional spectacular play...
