Legit question here: What constitutes a "targeted throw"? Farting in someone's general direction or hitting them in the hands?
I'm frustrated because I believed Hue Jackson and not myself with Kizer. Turns out, Hue was wrong and I (and almost everyone else, BTW) was right... Kizer needs one to two years of seasoning before he's ready to step into a starter role. After the way he's played this season, even with substantial improvement, I think the original 3-13 projection I gave Kizer is actually going to be extremely difficult to get. Chicago and Jacksonville just upset the Steelers and Ravens. Kizer will toss 2-3 INTs against Cincinnati next week, too. Christ... the Jets won this weekend. Houston played New England down to the wire. Looking at our schedule through the BYE, there's maybe one win in there if Kizer continues to play.
The player has to be the intended receiver on the play. Catch rate is therefore influenced by a number of factors: drops, secondary play, quarterback accuracy. Unfortunately, "drops" are tracked separately depending on where you look.
JFTR - I like Deshone Kizer. I see a world of potential in him, but his surrounding cast is killing him as much as anything....I put much more blame on our incompetent receivers than I do our young QB. Of course he going to make some mistakes. He's got a ways to go. He has a ton of pressure on him, and he has NOBODY within this offense that he can rely on right now....Tom Brady doesn't survive 8 drops. Kizer will be a good QB in the NFL, and I like a lot of what he brings to the table....In spite of the fact that Irish keeps sweeping through with his super wide Kizer hater broom, lumping all of us into the same category...
Fun fact...Weeden came into the league at the young age of 28, while Kizer is a ripe old 21... I'm sorry SAS, I have said it before, Kessler is an extremely safe QB. If you want mediocrity (See Andy Dalton) Kessler is our guy. Right now that looks like a GREAT option, I don't disagree. But there are things he just cannot do, that Kizer can. He's 21 freaking years old, would you guys please let that sink in. Kessler getting the Browns 5 wins on the year, compared to Kizer getting 3, but in 2018...Kizer will be ready to take a giant step that Kessler will never be able to take, simply because he doesn't have the physical talent. Kizer is making bonehead mental errors. Hell, maybe he never "learns" how to be a better QB, I'll conceded that. But, Learning to make better decisions is something that is possible, growing a new arm/body after you've reached your twenties...well, not a very high percentage that happens.
Because of learning... He must learn from every game in 2017 in order to become a better QB for 2018 and beyond... Game 1 to game 3, I am already seeing small baby steps. This game was lost by the 8 drops in key situations...AND the red zone INT that he threw. There were a dozen other things that could have turned this 3 point game into a win as well... You are putting the loss on this kids shoulders and it simply isn't realistic... How about Hue's play calling? 47 pass attempts to 21 rushes...and 7 of those 21 were by Kizer
Game 1: 66.7% completion, 2 turnovers Game 2: 48.4% completion, 4 turnovers Game 3: 46.8% completion , 3 turnovers He's regressing, despite playing progressively worse pass defenses each game. Pittsburgh: 136.6 YPG, 4.1 YPA, 2 TDs Baltimore: 227.0 YPG, 6.0 YPA, 5 TDs Indianapolis: 283.7 YPG, 7.2 YPA, 4 TDs
You said a completely honest statement there...Kizer needs one to two years of seasoning. Now, this is the argument we need to have. Would we be a playoff caliber team with any other QB on this roster starting in place of Kizer...I would not agree if you said yes... So, the next part of the equation is this...looking at film of himself making mistakes or Hogan, whether it's mistakes or not...would he learn more from knowing EXACTLY what the moment was that went into that mistake, or trying to imagine what Hogan was going through on the play. Well, even at the remedial level that I played, I know for a fact I learned 100% more on the plays I was involved in and learning from the film, rather than watching a counter part in a similar situation. I am not saying there isn't anything to learn from that, but the learning curve is smaller when it is YOU experiencing it. As for the "regression" it's 3 freaking games, give me a break with your regression analogy. Now...Giving examples of the others who won games...that can and will easily be the Browns at certain points of this year. Kizer isn't making all the penalties that are being assessed to this team, he isn't dropping balls, he isn't playing soft coverage and/or allowing a QB a 30 yards of green area to run right up the middle of the field for large gains. These 3 losses were team efforts...yet they lost Game 1 by 3 points Game 2 by 14 points Game 3 by 3 points So, two out of the 3 games were decided by what amounts to a single drive...Those wins will come when the TEAM stops making stupid mistakes/penalties and the QB begins to mature.
Here's a very real take: if he starts all 16 this season, not only will we only win 2 games (maybe), but Hue Jackson will be gone and we'll be in a position to take Josh Rosen with our first overall pick. He doesn't start winning some games and he's not going to get a 2018 in Cleveland. For the record, some people are giving Britt a drop on the interception that was thrown woefully behind him on the pattern that he really didn't have a shot at. I agree seven drops is high, but using that number: 11 incompletions (inaccurate passes) 3 interceptions 7 drops 7 passes defensed Putting it on the receivers ignores how inaccurate he continues to be as a passer.
Some people? That's because he got enough on the ball to tip it in the air for the interception. If you can get that much hand on the ball, then it should be caught, just ask Jordan Leslie...He also had two more drops on the day besides that one...in fact on the day, his 3 main wide receivers in Britt, Lewis and Higgins had 7 drops and 3 OPI between them. I beg to differ in your assessment above..It remains: 10 incompletions (6 inaccurate passes and 4 throw aways{although one throw away was also a near interception}) 3 interceptions 8 drops (two of which were thrown behind the receiver, but catchable) 7 passes defensed Now 6 inaccurate passes is still inexcusable, that cannot continue if he expects to remain a starter in the NFL. The fact remains, these players have been together for an extremely short amount of time. Until they know each other's moves, the timing will be off on the majority of throws. That is what is needed in order to move forward, consistency. If you consistently change bodies in the rotation at QB, then you will consistently lose...that I will guarantee you.
The Browns were favored by 1 pt and and lost by 3(yes it was probably worse)...Im not trying to give you I told you so's but for anybody to get that mad over a loss when the team isnt that good and going no where must have high unrealistic expectations....you keep saying you know their not gonna win many games but your gonna have a heart attack when they lose....as far as the Noles....you and Irish keep bringing up young guys for the Browns while their playing 18 yr old kids at crucial spots(QB and RB)...they will right the ship like last yr but in a way I hope they have a 7-5 type season so Jimbo can make the necessary coaching changes to get this talent playing where they should b...need a new OC, DC and possibly OL coach
You're entitled to your own opinions but not your own set of facts. Here's the Browns' play-by-play. Kizer was credited with one throw-away. There are a total of 25 passes that were not caught by Browns' receivers: 1 throw away 7 drops 7 passes defenced 10 bad passes (off-target or intercepted) He was also 3 of 7 (42.9%) with a sack on plays negated by penalty. ALL this was against a bad team we were favored to beat that didn't start their top two defensive backs and was (at the time) the second-worst pass defense in the NFL. You're making excuses for a QB who's simply not getting it done.
That's because your source only counts balls that hit out of bounds...I watched the game. He threw one out of bounds, one that was supposed to go out of bounds, but a defender actually got a hand on it (and prob should have been caught), but he was obviously throwing it out of bounds..and two he threw intentionally at the feet of players that were covered. Those FOUR throw-aways count in the real world.
Whatever you want to believe SAS..as you said, everyone has their own opinion. Yours at times is that we need consistency and patience..until they lose games, then you hop the fence to the other side and talk about how change is needed immediately. So, go with this weeks "opinion" and I will stay consistent with mine.
For the record, Kizer has me pulling my hair out and cursing loudly on game day...I am not saying it isn't frustrating to watch, I am extremely frustrated. At the same time, when I have time to do my breathing exercises, it still comes down to experience and consistency is what this team needs to move to the next level..which I also understand is still 4 levels below playoff caliber teams...
They called the throw to Devalve a drop.......that was a miracle he even got a few fingers on it....late 4th Q
And this is where it's tough, my friend. As-is without changes, this is another 1-15 football team. That's 2-30 in the past two seasons. That means 2018 isn't already a 9-7 or 10-6 season, but closer to 3-13 or 4-12. I don't have the patience to sit through 6-42 over three seasons. And I highly doubt that the front office/ownership is either.
The "other" Deshaun: 49 of 80 (61.3%) for 528 yards (6.6 YPA), 3 TDs, 3 INTs, 9 sacks, 77.5 QB rating. And an additional 124 yards and a touchdown on 15 attempts.
lol! I really don't care about Florida State Stopper. I just know they lost at home to NC ST, so I pulled a page from your book, and threw it out there for ya...FTR though, just about EVERYONE playing college is 18 to 22 years old. Lots of schools start freshman and sophomore QB's. It's not the same thing as starting a rookie QB in the NFL... For me it's not just about W's for the Cleveland Browns. I'm not having a fit because they lost. I'm having one because they looked like complete shit in doing so. Dropped passes drive me insane. (see; Braylon Edwards, Gregg Little etc). Blown assignments. Miscommunication. Stupid mental mistakes. Ridiculous penalties. Bad tackling. Bad play calling. Horrible game planning. Questionable roster management....YOU NAME IT. We got to see ALL our disfunction on display yesterday, and THAT my friend, is the reason for my "freakout" or whatever you wanna call it... I expect to see improvement on this football team...We didn't get that this week, and my aggravation boils over. Most of those who know me, know that when the Browns look like shit, I get very upset about it, and I rant for a day. Then it's over, and I get back to my usual optimistic self. My apologies for the meltdown.
