2016 NFL Draft - The Quarterbacks

I think the combine is a tool just like any other for determining player value but some evaluators put too much stock in it. You can see certain things in a lot easier fashion such as DBs turning and running up field, d-linemen moving in space and the type of build a player has as it relates to injury potential (remember David Boston?).

As for the measurables - some you can take with a grain of salt but if something trends severely in one way or another it is a useful warning sign.

Now, all of the above has to be marked and taken back to the game film for further review or else it is useless. It may help you find additional positives or negatives in a player that did not immediately stick out upon initial reviews.

Having more information is never a bad thing unless it is taken out of its proper context.

 

Yes I get all that. And measured drills are only part of the equation. Someone that just looks at the numbers and doesn't try to pair it with the field is foolish and I doubt there are many, if any, teams that do it at all. But what I'm saying is that even if it works how you say the combine is still messed up. They are discussing changing the combine. How much they change I don't know. The 40 for instance, almost everyone runs slower with pads but often times you have a guy with average numbers that is surely pretty much the same speed in pads at whatever split or even the full 40. The faster 40 guys lose a few steps unless they are free on a kick return. They even use the 5 or 10 yard split or whatever it is. There are a ton of factors and a lot of comparing to tape, but pads would surely bring a better number wouldn't it? Maybe some teams just think they are great at scouting and don't want other teams to have those numbers. I don't know.

Back to hands though. We pretty much say the hand number are garbage. Let them collect the data on all 5 fingers on a ball and after a decade they may get some useful data. Get current QBs to do it as well. Maybe in the future it will actually mean something instead of some people thinking it means something. My view is that pretty much anyone who is good enough for the NFL already had their hand "naturally selected" through the process of development. If his hand was no good he would never have made it that far. There is a reason you don't see many hands below 8.5 inches or so. But after that I doubt it matters.

 

It's not size that counts, Irish. It's the cute way you get on and off that matters. *BRAVO*

 

I don't believe they do either but analysts go crazy over them as well as casual fans.

Probably, but part of the reason for not wearing the pads has always been to view the players body type and build. It's a factor even if it's overrated.

More likely it's the fact that change comes slowly to the old guard. Technology is advanced enough to make some dramatic changes in how they go about the combine but simplicity is not always a bad thing.

 

You guys do know that Carson Wentz also sports a 4.0 GPA, right?

He won the NCAA Award 90, 3 years in a row for scholar athletes...

He is also blowing people away with his football acumen in interviews..

He also came from a pro style offense at North Dakota State, not a spread...

His hand size is the least compelling argument FOR drafting him...but Goff's hand size is another reason not to...

He will have to transition from the spread offense...does anyone see him playing in a spread in the NFL?

I am not dissing Goff with Wentz' intelligence, he also holds onto a 3.7 GPA, so he isn't stupid.

The only discernable negative on Wentz is his level of competition...which is a definite red flag, but he was the best in class when it came to that division, within the system he played. In FBS, we see a LOT of spread offenses designed to take advantage of defenses. At the pro level, those advantages almost vanish, thus no one uses it. Wentz and NDS didn't use those types of advantages, they played within the same type of pro system and won.

 

Irish, I am not making any statement regarding Wentz's intelligence.

I was discussing the thinking in regards to GMs.

Nothing more.

 

That is exactly what I think of the combine. In most cases, the combine is used to hopefully confirm something already seen on tape. Sometimes you can decipher that info, sometimes it irrelevant.

In the case of Goff, when watching film back in January, I noticed a lot of floating balls from him, I couldn't attribute it to footwork, as I thought his footwork and release for that matter were pretty good. I had no idea his hand was 9". Is that absolutely the reason for this red flag? I have no idea, I'm not privy to him up close and personal to test it further. What I do know is there is another piece available to me to see what this kid can and cannot do. That small piece of info could explain the floating balls and if that is the case, I don't want him slinging the ball in Cleveland in the winter.

Winter isn't all about the snow Tim, it's about the 5? weather with a -10? wind chill, when you can barely feel your fingers. THAT is what worries me more than the snow. Heck sometimes the dampness actually gives you a little more grip. As long as it isn't a down pour.

What I worry about is getting into division games and those floaters turning into losses...

Can he move past floating balls at the next level? Well, that really depends on what is causing those floating balls.

 

Well, and tape.

Which ultimately will be the deciding factor in all of this, not 40-times or hand size or the broad jump. It will be game film (which is both limited and not impressive for Wentz) and interviews.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland//...aways-from-quarterback-day-at-the-nfl-combine

Grossi (for what it's worth) take on the QB's from Media Day.

Goff:

Wentz:

Jones:

@Irish

I believe I brought that last part (Jones) up somewhere in these threads, but Grossi basically repeated my thoughts. If we're going to take a developmental QB based on measurables alone, let's get Cardale at #96 instead of Wentz at #2.

 

A few weeks ago I was about convinced that it had to be Goff going to Cleveland at #2 overall. Not so sure anymore...Hue certainly seems to indicate that hand size absolutely is a big deal, but it's not just that. I just think Wentz is the fast riser right now and he seems to be the one Cleveland has favored all along if you believe the smoke signals. I won't be surprised if Carson Wentz winds up being the first player taken in the draft. It's just a matter of which of the QB hungry teams are going to offer Tennessee the best deal....Hopefully that is not the case, but it wouldn't surprise me. I was listening to an interview with Cowboys coach Jason Garrett (who coached Wentz at Senior Bowl) and he was gushing about how smart and athletic he was, and that he had natural leadership abilities to go with perfect instincts and size for the position. Mentioned his impressive football IQ and knowledge of pro style offense.....I just can't help but get the feeling that the auction for the Titans pick is going to be heating up soon enough....It could be smoke, but I don't think so....Based on Garrett's description there's gotta be 20 teams that could be interested. Browns, Rams and Cowboys are just the ones getting mentioned...

 

Anybody but Wentz at #2....its like taking a center w the #2 pick...ur going against all logic

 

I've championed Cardale all along...I just get ridiculed as a homer every time I do it..

Everyone is convinced the Browns will take a QB at #2, I have been saying it off and on, I am not so convinced, not would I personally want it to happen. I said it in January and I still believe, there isn't a sure fire QB in this draft, and I agree, Cardale Jones has the highest upside of them all...I wouldn't be disappointed if they took Cardale at #32. I don't think it is any more of a reach as Goff or Wentz at #2. If you WANT Cardale at #96, then you better be prepared to take him earlier as I am sure you aren't the only one watching and wanting him.

 

If u take Cardale, he will need at least 2 yrs if he ever becomes ready...now Thomas is 33(likely gone), Barnidge(32), Desm Bryant(gone), Kruger(gone), Whitner(gone), Shelton(1 yr left...will want big contract), Bitonio(FA) and Gordon(culd already b gone)....the Browns need 2 think bout their better players being gone if Cardale is their guy in 2 yrs

 

If you think any of these guys are going to be ready in less time, you are kidding yourself. Goff will be ready to play, but I just don't see a player that will be a perennial leader.

The problem you are describing is pro sports in a nutshell though. You must always account for players getting older and/or leaving. That's the business. You must win at the draft game if you want to stay successful.

 

Would anyone be disappointed if somehow it fell that the first 3 Browns picks were:

2. Myles Jack
32. Braxton Miller
65. Cardale Jones
96. Shawn Oakman

?

 

If thats the case, they shuld have traded some picks and drafted Winston and sped up the process while these guys still had something left

 

Sorry Dogside, IMO this draft wuld b an FFFFFF.....ur taking a guy that has a severe knee injury, a WR trying 2 make a transition to a new position(1 yr) and a QB that needs so much work its like a HS QB starting over....finally Oakman is as soft as cotton candy

 

Such a blowhard.. 6 F's stopper? Really?? That's your opinion?? Why do ya gotta be like that? there's a way to give a critique without being an ass, and then there's your way, which totally speaks for itself...smh. It's all speculation. There was nothing on Dogside's draft to warrant a grade like that. You just love to provoke in your little incendiary way.... For what it's worth, Cardale in the third round makes perfect sense in this scenario, given that he didn't go QB with either of the first two picks. And I'd love to see the high school QB that brings to the table all that Cardale Jones does...If you like Bosa over Jack as an edge rusher, why not just say that? Lot's of guys come into the league with injury history....And there's no need to compare his pick to a beloved carnival food. If you prefer somebody else at #96, throw it out there...Geez.

 

I didnt mean it like that w 6 F's.....I was just holding the F sound...anyway that draft is way 2 risky w guys either hurt or making a position change....go out and get a football player....I wuld rather take Ronny Stanley or A'Shawn Robinson at #2 over an injured Jack...they run a 3-4 and Robinson is a 3-4 DE that knows how 2 play the position and u dont have 2 worry bout change....this is just an example

 

That's better stopper. nice job. Should've just went that route to begin with. I'm sort of surprised you aren't all about Jalen Ramsey...I think he's a top 5 overall for sure, and he might be the most talented player in this draft...

As far as Dogsides draft scenario, not bad at all, but I'd do a couple things differently..... I like Jack, but I would go Bosa over him if given the choice. At #32, Braxton is an intriguing pick, but I would rather double down on D and go with Darron Lee at that point....Love the Cardale pick in the 3rd. He's the wildcard. If you aren't going to go QB in the first round, Jones is a nice prospect with an ultra high ceiling IMO. So now it's all Ohio State for the first 3, so I might as well snag Vannett at #96. lol!

It's the Buckeye draft....I think SAS and I discussed this earlier. Can you imagine? lol!

No matter what, it's gonna be a fun draft for Buckeye fans.....I can't wait to see where all these Ohio State players wind up....