2016 NFL Draft - The Quarterbacks

If so....1995

 

McNair was the last one, I was just being coy.

And even the second-tier FBS schools picked in the Top 5 have largely been disappointments.

Blake Bortles
Eric Fisher
Aaron Curry (ACC not a bad conference, but Wake a bad program)

... not much beyond that. Honestly, that pick is almost always a Power 5 conference, or a transcendent player (e.g., Larry Fitzgerald, Pitt).

 

No, you're right, Khalil Mack is garbage.

The discussion on Wentz is worth having. This silly crap about players outside certain college conferences? It's not going anywhere, there's no point to be made, and it won't help your case regarding Wentz. Discuss the player, because the botched history lesson is a bad idea.

 

Reading comprehension 4 some people...the discussion was FCS schools and players and Buffalo is a MAC school Division 1

 

You're right. A single player taken - who was dominant against a National Champion - must mean every small school player is absolved of being stinky.

How's it botched? I found 1 instance in the last 21 years where a Division II player was drafted in the Top 5.

Even lower-tier Division I programs have very few Top 5 picks. And even fewer successful ones.

History absolutely plays a part in this. Wentz was a R2-R3 player until the season ended, the QB class had settled, and everyone wanted to talk about options. Let's take a look at his game tape - average - and compare how QBs in his program / Division have done at the next level.

Spoiler alert!!

Spoiler

Not good.

 

Pot, meet kettle....

The discussion went beyond FCS to second tier division 1 schools, by SAS who is arguing your point...get in the discussion or don't, but stop making ignorant remarks.

Just for the record, I went to a MAC school and they are definitely second tier...so don't try to argue that next.

 

I don't think he is saying that at all, basically what you were saying though is if they aren't a Power 5 Conference, they shouldn't be taken in the top 5.



let me ask you this, out of this history you are digging up of Div 2 top 5 players drafted, how have they turned out?


MY point is...if the player is evaluated to be THAT good, then there is a better than average chance he is the real deal. Scouts aren't going to take the competition level lightly. They never have and they never will.

Wentz was a R2-R3 player BEFORE the season started...the "rankings" don't even change until the season ends and the scout wannabes begin evaluating for the off season. During the season, their jobs have them reporting on the football at hand.

The think is, these "new rankings" are based on what the scouting community are talking about, not solely on where the kids play ball.

Before the season, Wentz had one year of film, and yet the amateurs had a FCS school kid ranked in the 2nd-3rd round...Go back to your history lesson and tell me how many times THAT'S happened.

They realized the scouting community was locked in on him and moved him to a late first/early second round grade so they didn't look stupid. Now that their job is 100% focused on the draft and they are talking to their sources, they realize his true outlook in NFL circles is top ten, possibly the first QB taken in the draft.

When I started my evaluations, he was an after thought...simply because he went to a FCS school...I beg you to re-watch the film...I've done it several times now. For my money, he is the best QB prospect in this draft...and I was saying that BEFORE any of this top ten hype began, so don't accuse me of jumping on the bandwagon.

From what I am hearing now..and the basis of his top 5 climb...is that he is knocking it out of the park in the interviews. The word out, is that his Xs and Os intelligence is off the charts. That was the last piece, for me at least, to feel comfortable taking him that high. I wasn't sure if he would be able to take the skill set and adapt it to complicated offenses..and maybe more importantly, read NFL defenses. The more I dig in, the more I feel comfortable. Not only is his football acumen of an extremely high level, he has a 4.0 in school. The fact that North Dakota State runs a pro style offense doesn't hurt anything either. From what I have read, it isn't a watered down version either...possibly why they have won 5 National Championships in a row.

Be scared at his division...I get it, in fact I was there...but try and feel a little more comfortable, because I personally believe he will be a great QB in the NFL...

NOW, for Lym...I am back on board with sitting him for as long as we can with McCown. The speed of the game will be a shock to the system. He came to the Senior Bowl and that step didn't bother him hardly at all..but the next step will be immense. Giving him at least half the season to get up to speed would help him, imho.

All that said...I would still be satisfied with either Wentz or Goff at #2...I am starting to get used to the fact that the Titans could trade out of #1 and that pick might make history.

He would be the first non Division 1A/FBS QB taken since 1970

That player in 1970? HOF QB Terry Bradshaw out of Louisiana Tech

A list of other Division 1AA and below players taken #1 overall:
1974 Ed "Too Tall" Jones HOF DE out of Tennessee State
....

Short list...

But two HOFers... (edit This bothered me, so I checked, Ed Jones actually is not a member of the HOF, but did have a great NFL career.

It took 42 years to find another candidate to even mention in a breath to be worthy of that honor.

I don't think anyone is going to take this lightly, but this kid has the goods..Not because I say so, but because professional scouts across the NFL are saying so. At the end of this process, this could actually be the outcome.

 

I hadn't heard much about Wentz until Bowl season when he started to pick up hyper (partially because he had an injured wrist). I made it a point to record the FCS Championship that he came back for. While his numbers weren't staggering (16/29 197 1td/2int), I can say he came into the game with no rust. He knew his receivers and what they could do. He made a few bad throws, one of his picks wasn't his fault, but he was dropping the ball where only his guys could get it. I don't have the official "drops" stat, or really know what truly counts as a "drop", but in my eyes if you get 2 hands on it and don't catch it its a drop and by that measure his wr's let him down.

I haven't broken down tape or watched multiple games. I watched one game, re-watched a number of plays and I like the kid. I agree that the speed will be a big adjustment, but the brain is what will help him with that. I still have the Senior Bowl no DVR to see how he handled top level D1 talent, word was that he was doing fine, and to me that's a good indication that he could handle the next step.

I am not going to argue whether or not he is worthy of the #2 pick, I don't make enough to have to worry about that. If they think he's the guy, great, go get him, and I will support the hell out of him.

 

Please show me where SAS said anything bout 2nd tier schools after u quoted my post bout Wentz? All he did was answer my question bout the last top 5 pick from a FCS school which was McNair(1995)...nothing ignorant bout it, but voicing my opinion that since 1995 only one FCS player has ever gone in the top 5...so go ahead and draft Wentz at #2 and then come crying in a couple of yrs that the Browns still need a franchise QB

 

Here is where the conversation went to second -tier FBS schools by SAS...

Then:

Which led to the ignorant comment:

Meaning of Ignorant;
1.
lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned:
an ignorant man.
2.
lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact:
ignorant of quantum physics.
3.
uninformed; unaware.
4.
due to or showing lack of knowledge or training:
an ignorant statement.

Can be confused:
ignorant=stupid., I, in NO WAY, mean the word stupid, stupidity plays no part in the word ignorant...In fact I am not even calling you ignorant, only your post in this instance.

 

Sashi Brown released a statement, which for all intent and purpose signifies the Browns will release Manziel when league rules permit, which is February 9th...

 

My guess is that they wait until the start of the new league year (March something) so they don't have to eat his 2015 dead money.

 

Correction...and I find this a little odd. Because of salary cap ramifications for the current league year, The Browns will not release Manziel on Feb. 8th, but rather wait until the first day of the new league year March 9th, so that the 2015 league year salary cap will absorb $1.875M and the remaining $4.333M will count against 2016 league year...

 

I should have refreshed before that last post...

Yes, we only currently have about $2M in salary cap space in 2015, mainly because of past dead money of about $7.3M

 

I think that's exactly what he was trying to say.

Actually, all I said was the history of small school picks early in the draft do not typically yield great results. In the end, it has to come down to the prospect himself, but there are very few small school guys who measure up like a Khalil Mack did.

Noah Spence is a guy that comes to mind, but he's a bit different due to off-the-field concerns and not actually his ability.

It's a pretty small sample size (one) in the last three decades. McNair was a very good QB in the League. Carson Wentz is not Steve McNair.

I think we agree completely here.

Actually, I'm only using the "R2-R3" grade based on early mock drafts I saw. I don't get too heavily into grading out or paying attention to potential draft picks during the college football season.

I had never heard of Wentz until December when I saw a three round mock draft for Cleveland and they had him in the third.

I think it has more to do with the fact that there isn't a Jameis Winston in this year's QB class.

Again, I didn't see anything until mid-December. Preseason, he probably wasn't on a single radar, save for a few of the small school scouts employed by some NFL teams.

Honestly, I think you said it perfectly about Paxton Lynch in this thread's first post:

This is exactly what's happening with Wentz. People are intrigued by a blend of size, arm strength, and deceptive athleticism and combined with a draft class lacking "sizzle" at the position, he's rocketed a lot higher than he would have in another year.

I won't accuse you of jumping on any bandwagons.

And I have re-watched Wentz's film. It's not that impressive, in my honest opinion.

I like him less than Blake Bortles when he came out and, if you recall, I put him somewhere in the R3-range. Obviously, some team like Bortles enough to make him the No. 3 overall pick, so it only takes one team to fall in love with a guy.

Heck, Brandon Weeden was undraftable in my rankings and the Browns took him at No. 22 overall.

This isn't a great comparison. You know what I think of Terry Bradshaw.

We're all missing the obvious comp to Wentz and it's Flacco. They're almost the exact same prospect, only Flacco had a shot at FBS competition and just transferred due to playing time.

Some people consider Flacco a Top 5 QB. I'm not one of them. I don't think he's ever thrown for more than 4,000 yards in seven seasons. And just like Flacco, I think Wentz is better suited to a team that picks in the late part of R1 and can support him with a phenomenal defense and running game like Baltimore did.

We don't have that in Cleveland and likely won't have it any time soon.

 

This guy basically summed up my thoughts on Wentz.

http://thedraftwire.usatoday.com/20...-he-was-and-there-is-nothing-wrong-with-that/

Good piece, especially considering he's a Steeler's fan. I'm shocked to learn the article wasn't just slurs and grunting.

 

Since he didnt give a quote of the post, I thought DLine was talking 2 me bout Mack....thats why I referenced reading comprehension, but now it makes sense he was talking 2 SAS

 

I believe his hype will fizzle out and go back 2 where he shuld b projected....heck Bosa has calmed down as the #1 pick in most drafts and hes going somewhere btwn 3-6

 

Bingo!

Flacco threw for 3900 in '13 and '14. On top of that his career completion percentage is only 60 and he has a 1.6:1 TD:int, all rather average numbers.

 

Career averages for Flacco

3,677 yards
21 TDs
13 INTs
7.0 yards per attempt

Now, list the top ten QBs that beat those averages...

Not sure where you get that everyone thinks he is a top 5 QB, but in Cleveland, when was the last time we had a competent QB, let alone a top 10 QB.

Are you trying to feed us a bill of goods, that you would not want a QB the same caliber of Joe Flacco playing for the Cleveland Browns?

I understand everyone wants a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but that type of player may not come around for another 50 years...so continuing with the same thing we have been for the past 19 years until he does...and with all the luck in the world, he happens to be available the year the Browns have the #1 overall pick, something that has only happened 3 times in franchise history.

We are talking about best available options, not the best QB in the NFL, or one of the 5 best...those guys may never be available to the Browns...but what about the 6th best or even the 9th best? I for one would welcome that guy to this team with open arms as long as he is a good leader and teammate.

I will help you all out with the names of the current top QBs(Yds,TDs,INTs,YPA, playoff record):
Tom Brady 4,144/30TD/10INT/7.4/22-9
Peyton Manning 4,355/33TD/14INT/7.7/13-13, currently in the SB
Aaron Rodgers 4,219/34TD/8INT/6.7/7-6
Drew Brees 4,429/31TD/15INT/7.5/6-5
Those 4 were easy...

Now for the tougher part, Please feel free to add any that you deem worthy
Philip Rivers 4,130/28TD/13INT/7.8/4-5
Matthew Stafford 4,543/28TD/17/7.0/0-1
Eli Manning 3,922/26TD/17INT/7.1/8-3
Tony Romo 3,958/29TD/13INT/7.3/2-4
Ben Roethlisberger 3,908/25TD/13INT/7.9/11-6
Russell Wilson 3,493/26TD/8INT/8.1/7-3
Cam Newton 3,652/23TD/12INT/7.6/3-2 currently in the SB

and I will throw in Matt Ryan since he was the QB taken ahead of Flacco in the draft
Matt Ryan 4,094/25TD/13INT/7.2/1-4

Joe Flacco 3,677/21TD/13INT/7.0/10-5

Now, does Joe Flacco belong in the top ten? I don't know, his stats are comparable to about the tenth spot...Throw in his playoff experience and stats, I would say he is closer to 6 than 10...

Now out of this list, how many are Super Bowl winners(BOLDED)? 8 IF you include Flacco, who had one of the best post season runs in history when the Ravens won SBXLVII...5 have not won Super Bowls, while 1, Matthew Stafford has never won a playoff game.

Now how many QBs are NOT on this list? How many of them are Super Bowl winners?

None that are not retired... and only 3 names in the past 15 years. Kurt Warner, who we agree is a better QB than Flacco, Kyle Boller and Brad Johnson, whom I don't think I will get any arguments that they are not any better than Flacco.



All that said...

Would any of you take Joe Flacco, knowing what you know above? I would...

Is Jared Goff or Carson Wentz the next Joe Flacco or better? No one knows that and if they say they do, you have my permission to call them a liar...