I will try to help out Irish and flood the market with scouting reports... Laquon Treadwell - Ole Miss, Junior 6'2" 210 pounds*, 20 years old Stats for 2015: 82 receptions, 1,153 yards (14.1 YPC), 11 TDs Spoiler *I've seen him listed anywhere from 6'2" and 210 to 6'2" and 219 to 6'3" and 224. I'm using what's listed on the official Ole Miss team site. General Consensus: the next Dez Bryant. My Evaluation: I think Treadwell might be the No. 1 prospect in the upcoming draft. There is a ton to like about his game. The first thing that stands out is how aggressive he is in catching the ball. Unlike a Mike Evans type receiver who overpowers with size and height, Treadwell makes impressive grabs on contested balls routinely due to a blend of ability and know-how. That physicality extends to other aspects of his game as he plays very hard. He does very well in space, on screens, or accelerating quickly in a crowd (good vision?), although he does appear to lack top-end speed. His route tree seemed somewhat limited at Ole Miss, but the routes he does run are crisp and fluid. He broke his leg in 2014 against Auburn but came back very well in 2015 and finished the year strong. My Comparison: most folks seem to be saying Dez Bryant, but I think a little higher of this guy. I'm going with Julio Jones, Atlanta. While not as fast of a sprinter and not as built, everything else is very reminiscent of Jones. I obviously went out on a limb in 2011 and said Jones was better than Green and see a lot of those same things I loved about Jones in Treadwell. Bottom Line: if I have my QB position squared away (e.g., signing Robert Griffin in free agency), I'm using No. 2 overall on this guy.
I love the idea of adding Treadwell to this roster...prior to the removal of Farmer, I didn't even think it was an option. There is another post in the Lounge talking about Hue Jackson's candidacy..IF he is convinced to remain in the AFC North, I think Treadwell becomes a real possibility. I took your advice Sam and moved this discussion here... Pretty simple answer Stopper...It is difficult to take away the deep ball, even with a less than super star Travis Benjamin, it is damn near impossible when you have two capable of spreading the field. This team needs weapons AND replacements. When Benjamin goes down to injuries, and at his size they will be plentiful, there needs to be another to step in and take his place. Right now, there is absolutely no one that can do that. Will Fuller is actually a better version of Benjamin and would allow the future offense to be deadly imho, rather than just mediocre. This offense needs as many weapons as it can muster to make a ordinary QB look great. The Bengals went out and got A.J. Green and Tyler Eifert...Hue Jackson will want weapons. Besides, at that spot, I would be willing to say Fuller would be the BPA on the board...and is a better receiver overall than Corey Coleman, imho...You said he is a "different" type of receiver, but I have to disagree. He is a receiver who relies on his speed..However, Coleman was more of a catch and use your ability to get yards after catch, Fuller is very good at using his speed to get separation. I'm not sure Coleman's abilities are good enough to translate in the NFL, again, just my opinion. I'm going to watch more film when I get time though...my opinion can be changed...Haven't had enough time to finish the QBs, hope to get back to that tonight after work.
Corey Coleman - Baylor, RS Junior 5'11" 190 pounds, 21 years old Stats for 2015: 74 receptions, 1,363 yards (18.4 YPC), 20 TDs General Consensus: a great deep-threat receiver with a flair for making big plays. My Evaluation: Coleman is one of the fastest players on the field in college, but he spent his entire time in a division that plays zero defense and features explosive offenses. Sure, his 3,000 career yards are impressive, but that's like having a winning record in the AFC South -- not worth much. Coleman is a shorter receiver, but is built very well for his size. He can accelerate on a dime and can make a small play turn into a big gain with ease. Shows very soft hands catching the ball, but seems to have some trouble tracking it on occasion (lack of focus?). His 20 TDs last season (in 12 games) are five shy of what the Browns scored as a team in 16. He was very limited in the routes he ran, again due a lot in part to his offensive system, so you can't fault him too much. At his size, is he going to go over the middle? To me, he looks like (and this is what I said about Sammy Watkins as well) he could be the best No. 2 WR in the NFL, but I have some doubts about him being the premier guy. My Comparison: as a prospect, somewhere between Odell Beckham Jr. and Sammy Watkins. Obviously, those two (especially Beckham Jr.) have been terrific in the NFL and I do not want to suggest that Coleman can duplicate that success immediately. As a prospect however, there are a number of similarities between them -- especially Watkins. He can make a short catch an 80 yard TD. The real question is can he translate to the NFL from a system that has produced zero legitimate NFL wide receivers. Bottom Line: how ironic would it be if Cleveland, after eschewing the position since 2011, used their first two selections on play making wide receivers? If Travis Benjamin leaves in free agency, I'd be highly tempted to.
I disagree w whoever wrote that analysis of Coleman....I thought he was a physical WR that had great run after catch ability...I will watch him again and see if that changes
Wow, after watching more film, I think this is a slap in the face...no a kick to the balls of Steve Smith... I decided to move on to the WRs, rather than continue with a bad QB class, I watched tape last night for about 2 1/2 hours, then woke up at 4:15 this morning, couldn't go back to sleep, so I watched another 2 hours...In all I watched Laquon Treadwell, Michael Thomas, Will Fuller, Tyler Boyd, Josh Doctson and ALL 5 2016 games of Corey Coleman, just to try and see what some of you are talking about with him.. I'll start with Coleman, since I made that statement above... Coleman is a highlight reel, based on some really bad defenses he played against. He is fast, he is quick, but if he isn't the #1 target on the play call, he might as well be standing on the sidelines, because he quickly tells his defender, go find the ball..He doesn't run more than 4 yards if the play isn't going to him..He doesn't block AT ALL, EVER...which is why I said it was a kick to the balls of the Steve Smith comparison, this kid doesn't have the competitive fire, he is simply the best athlete on the field, with bad defenses across from him. That will not translate in the NFL.. When asked about his injury and subsequent surgery to end his career at Baylor..his response: He had a sports hernia, which isn't an uncommon injury, nor is it necessarily an injury you can't play with. The recovery time is about 6 weeks, so his draft prep wouldn't have been jeopardized in any way either...The Bears weren't in a premier bowl, so he shunned his teammates to get an elective surgery.. I wouldn't touch this guy if he's available in the 4th round... Now, as for the rest... Laquon Treadwell is head and shoulders, the best WR in this draft. He does it all, runs great routes, adjusts to the ball, blocks on every run play, runs a route whether involved in the play or not, plays through double teams..the one down side, he doesn't have great speed, but he is very good at getting separation regardless and is the best receiver in this draft at catching the ball in traffic. The only player, I would put above Treadwell at any one point of skillset is Josh Doctson who is second to none on contested balls. Throw it up and if he's in the vicinity, he will either win the catch or make sure no one catches it. That said, the second best receiver in this draft, imho, is Will Fuller. He is an all around strong receiver who can get separation with his elite speed. He has good initial moves, and uses that speed to his advantage. There is a lot of talk about Michael Thomas maybe moving ahead of Treadwell in this draft, I don't see it at all. He is a strong possession receiver, but honestly, I wouldn't put him in the top 3... From the one's I watched this is my order: Top 5 Laquon Treadwell late 1st Will Fuller 2nd Josh Doctson 2nd/3rd Tyler Boyd 2nd/3rd Michael Thomas 3rd/4th Corey Coleman Now these are grades I would use historically. As I haven't rated all positions, I expect these initial grades to improve slightly, based on the overall weaker draft class.. In the end, I think ALL of these receivers would improve our roster, however, I think Coleman is a cancer waiting to happen in the NFL and won't ultimately mount to much...I would stay away from him.
I disagree with this list a great deal (my top 3 - Thomas, Coleman, Treadwell), but for now I'll just throw out the name of a good sleeper candidate in this draft class. Sterling Shepard is probably going to watch his draft stock rise throughout the process. His size will be an issue with scouts but he is a gritty player that has very good separation skills, catches the ball naturally and is an extremely reliable target for his quarterback. I'm really interested to see what his combine numbers look like. This draft class offers some unique players at WR, particularly in the slot.
I read a little about this and wasn't sure exactly how to take it. I heard both sides' defenses and still don't know where I stand. Technically, for foregoing his senior season he's also doing what's best for him and not his teammates for Baylor fans, so what's one more game? On the other hand, it does raise some questions about his commitment, albeit for free, to football. Wow. Again, wow. I'm not very high on Doctson or Fuller. I'll go back and watch some more film on Fuller, but would agree with showstopper that he's essentially the same guy as Travis Benjamin, just not as fast.
Michael Thomas - Ohio State, RS Junior 6'3" 210 pounds, 21 years old 2015 Stats: 56 receptions, 781 yards (13.9 YPC), 9 TDs General Consensus: NFL bloodlines, prototypical size, and playing for a major college power. Best possession wide receiver prospect. My Evaluation: Michael is the last of my potential first round wide receivers. He's got the requisite size and footwork to be a reliable receiver at the next level. When I watch the tape, I generally don't see any one thing that stands out but I see a lot of very good little things all together. You would have liked to see him produce more in his junior season than his sophomore one, but he did play for a team who struggled with passing and was a run-first team. Despite this, he is not the best blocking wide receiver of the bunch. Could not step into Devin Smith's deep threat role after his departure to the Jets. My Comparison: Brian Robiskie. Displays slightly more athleticism than the former Browns' second round pick while maybe not as much polish, but is an all-around average receiver. Robiskie obviously never caught on in the NFL and I think Smith could have the same problem as he appeared to struggle picking up the position at OSU early on. Bottom Line: he'll likely be a late first round pick because he's the right size and bloodlines, but he comes from a program that has not been producing top-end wide receivers for a while. Some team will take a chance on him, I just hope it isn't the Browns.
I watched some highlight reels on Coleman and thought, wow a play maker...Then I started watching more game film, with more plays than just that his catches...Did some looking into the opponents and it wasn't kind to his stock. This kid looks very lazy to me, something that doesn't transfer to the NFL very well. Call it a gut feeling, I just don't think he is going to amount to much. I'm not overly high on Doctson either, it is just the one single aspect of his ability to grab contested balls that caught my eye...hence the low 2nd to 3rd round grade on him. As for Michael Thomas, I'm a Buckeye fan, so immediately I was enamored with the young man...however, when you start breaking down film on him, he is certainly nothing special. I wish I could see more in him, I really do, especially with his physical characteristics...it just isn't there. He is going to be a specialist possession receiver at the next level, imho. Those receivers can be found throughout free agency for a reasonable price..which is why I gave him a late 2nd/3rd round grade. As for Fuller, I think he is a very well rounded receiver. He is able to use his speed to get separation, which gives him a boost in his overall grade. I certainly see a more polished receiver in him over Michael Thomas. I watched both of these receivers a lot this past year and quite honestly, I held a higher place with Thomas than Fuller throughout the year...It wasn't until I was breaking down their games last night watching film that my perception changed completely.
I can appreciate that Tim, I would love to hear why you have the rankings you do... I haven't watched tape on Shepard yet, so I don't have an opinion on him...Maybe tonight I can dive into him and a couple of others that I want to look at...only so much time in the day.
Short on time right now but I'll give you a quick thought on Treadwell - I question his ability to gain separation at the NFL level and he has a skill set that would work better in a taller, larger wide receiver. There is some serious ability to work with in Laquon when it comes to his ability to use all of his catch radius to make an easy target for his quarterback but contested passes in college are much different from those on the NFL level. Without some measure of distance between the target and defender I have concerns that Treadwell's game may not translate as smoothly as many analysts believe.
Finally finished watching Coleman's highlights...here is my breakdown: This kid can accelerate and get 2 top speed in bout 3-4 strides...I think it was against WV he caught a hitch route and turned inside and was a blur. I believe he will b a slot WR in the NFL and u think guys like Cobb, Edelman and Cooks were hard 2 cover, this kid will b a nightmare. I do think he is a body catcher at this point, but I also see him catch a slant route and high point the ball w ease so he will need 2 b consistent...finally, I agree Irish he doesnt want 2 mix it up when it comes 2 blocking and that will change or he will b standing on the sidelines...I can also see him being a dynamic kick and punt returner...he showed some ability when he lined up at RB 2 make me think he wuld b a natural
Perfect segue, showstopper. Braxton Miller - Ohio State, RS Senior 6'2" 220 pounds, 23 years old (will be 24 for 2016 season) 2015 Receiving Stats: 25 receptions, 340 yards (13.6 YPC), 3 TD 2015 Rushing Stats: 43 rushes, 261 yards (6.1 YPC), 1 TD General Consensus: gifted athlete who'll need to completely convert from QB to make it in the NFL. My Evaluation: one of the most electric, fastest players in all of college over his four (five, counting injury) year career. A consummate professional, handling what was a very challenging situation at OSU with aplomb and maturity. Moved to WR as a senior due to injuries to his throwing arm and unexpected success of J.T. Barrett. Did I mention he was fast? Also, one of the most nimble athletes I've seen play in memory -- maybe ever. Able to accelerate to top speed without so much a third step. Owns an amazing 'juke' move. Can he be a full-time WR at the next level? His dedication and demeanor are obviously there, so there's a lot of hope. An exciting playmaker whose versatility is another tremendous asset. My Comparison: Chad Johnson (Cincinnati). Like Johnson, Miller has outstanding balance and body control. Most people will say Denard Robinson, but Miller is much bigger and well-built for either the RB or WR position. Unlike Johnson, Miller could probably beat a thoroughbred in a foot race without the massive head-start. Bottom Line: too enticing to pass up. He's going to shoot up draft boards after the Combine, as he could easily post a 4.2-something in the dash. He's still very much a work in progress, but the upside is undeniable.
*BRAVO* I know you all have Michael Thomas rated higher, but LONG TERM, I would rather have Braxton Miller over Michael Thomas...
Totally agree! I only rank him higher based on draft wisdom. Did you see my "reactionary mock draft"? Miller might not leave any of my mocks this year. I love that guy.
220 lbs....who writes these evals? Mayb back in 2013....I havnt watched him yet, but other than the VT game, I wasnt impressed...kinda disappeared in a lot of games, but I will watch his film
He had his role and he played it...Don't take the fact he was learning a whole new position lightly, that isn't an easy task at the college level. He has a long way to go, but he has the ability, imho.
Thinking the Browns will either draft Geoff or Bosa at #2 I also think Treadwell will be the 1st WR off the board and that will be early. For that reason OSU's very own Micheal Thomas may be there with our 2nd rd pick if we do decide to go that route. Thomas is pedigreed. He is the nephew of Keshawn Johnson so he will be getting great advise from his uncle. I have read in numerous mags that Keshawn told Micheal to play with his hands and body and to be physical with that body. He doesn't have his uncle's hands or body type but could easily learn and grow. If Treadwell is gone by our 2nd pick then Micheal Thomas is my man. On to Braxton. Braxton surprised me with his hands and body movement/control. I already knew about his movement in open space. I feel he will get drafted in the top 3 rds because of his athletic ability and will be a great addition to any team for a 3rd rd pick. But for my money it's Micheal Thomas.
Just using the most consistent numbers I see on the inter-webs, stopper. He was listed anywhere from 210 - 220. Either way, official measurements won't be there until February. And with Miller, you're drafting on projections and not production. It's a risky bet for sure, which is why you take him (if available) in a round you as an organization feel comfortable with. To me, Miller's upside is worth a gamble in the R3-R4 range. Considering the talent of the WR position on the roster, he could meaningfully contribute early on.
