16

Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

Mongo_76 wrote:

I'm not opposed to keeping him, for now. Not that I think he will break out, but as BWW said can't have enough pass rushers.

It looks like I'm the only on this side of this argument...

Mcphee has been crap. Save a few games in 2015, I see no value in him even when he was healthy.

I think Pace needs to cut his losses. And yes, that 8 million can definitely be used. If not this year, then roll it over to 2018.

I have no idea how cap roll over works, but if we can Roll a full 8 million of cap into 2018 by cutting him in 2017, than I would fully support cutting our losses on McPhee.

If the cap gain is mostly in 2017, than there is no reason to cut him at this point. If he is healthy he could still be a good player, though that is obviously a huge if.

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Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

I think Kevin White is the guy we need most to exceed expectations in 2017. There are obviously lots of choices, but this dude is the 7th overall pick who was selected for his potentially game breaking physical abilities.

Now, our expectations for him are basically non-existant. It would be such a huge win for this team if Kevin White became even a rock solid #2 option deep threat. I dont think he becomes that, but man it would be a huge relief.

Second for me would actually be Eddie Goldman

Combines with guys like Leonard Floyd, Willie Young, and co - Eddie Goldman has the potential to hold the keys to this offense. He could be the motor that makes our defense go if he can max out and exceed expectations this year. He has the physical ability and looks like he could have the brain and technique to go with it. Putting it all together, and staying healthy, will be the big questions.

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18

Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

Go Bearsssss wrote:
Mongo_76 wrote:

I'm not opposed to keeping him, for now. Not that I think he will break out, but as BWW said can't have enough pass rushers.

It looks like I'm the only on this side of this argument...

Mcphee has been crap. Save a few games in 2015, I see no value in him even when he was healthy.

I think Pace needs to cut his losses. And yes, that 8 million can definitely be used. If not this year, then roll it over to 2018.

I have no idea how cap roll over works, but if we can Roll a full 8 million of cap into 2018 by cutting him in 2017, than I would fully support cutting our losses on McPhee.

If the cap gain is mostly in 2017, than there is no reason to cut him at this point. If he is healthy he could still be a good player, though that is obviously a huge if.



Any unused cap can be rolled over to the next year. There is (to my knowledge) no limit to the amount you can roll to the next season.

However, the team must also spend at least 89% of their cap space (this year it's 166 million + 8 million rolled from last year = 174 million), netted over a 4 year period.

So, currently the Bears are 31 million under the cap. If they cut McPhee, they'll go another 7.7 million under so they'll be at 135 million/174 million = 77%

Which means that over the next 3 seasons (2018, 19,20) they'll have to use more of their cap space to get to that 89% floor.

I despise those self promoting twatwaffles -- Tuna

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19

Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

Mongo_76 wrote:

I'm not opposed to keeping him, for now. Not that I think he will break out, but as BWW said can't have enough pass rushers.

It looks like I'm the only on this side of this argument...

Mcphee has been crap. Save a few games in 2015, I see no value in him even when he was healthy.

I think Pace needs to cut his losses. And yes, that 8 million can definitely be used. If not this year, then roll it over to 2018.

I don't see the point in cutting him but I'm not a fan of his.  Think he has been overweight since arriving here and that contributed to the longest recovery in knee scope history last season. He has done nothing to earn his contract so at least make him suffer with the rest of us through another painful season.

As long as he isn't taking reps from any young guys with potential,  let him stay, but be looking very hard for a replacement.

"It's time to man up and turn things around" - Kyle Long prior to win over Green Bay on Thanksgiving

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Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

aggie16 wrote:
Mongo_76 wrote:

I'm not opposed to keeping him, for now. Not that I think he will break out, but as BWW said can't have enough pass rushers.

It looks like I'm the only on this side of this argument...

Mcphee has been crap. Save a few games in 2015, I see no value in him even when he was healthy.

I think Pace needs to cut his losses. And yes, that 8 million can definitely be used. If not this year, then roll it over to 2018.

I don't see the point in cutting him but I'm not a fan of his.  Think he has been overweight since arriving here and that contributed to the longest recovery in knee scope history last season. He has done nothing to earn his contract so at least make him suffer with the rest of us through another painful season.

As long as he isn't taking reps from any young guys with potential,  let him stay, but be looking very hard for a replacement.

To that point...

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30000 … amp;sr=amp

He won't even turn 29 until December. 

He's still a young man, with NFL experience, and has somewhat of an untapped potential.

I'm not a huge fan either, but there's no harm whatsoever in giving him another year to prove himself.

fishing > work

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21

Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

Bear-man 11 wrote:

To that point...

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30000 … amp;sr=amp

He won't even turn 29 until December. 

He's still a young man, with NFL experience, and has somewhat of an untapped potential.

I'm not a huge fan either, but there's no harm whatsoever in giving him another year to prove himself.

1) Do you agree that this team is not really in position to win this year?

2) If so, do you think that next year is a much more likely year for them to begin competing as younger players grow into their positions and (hopefully) make a run?

3) If so, do you think banking that 8 million cap we re paying him this year and rolling into next year is a better use of that cap?

If you answered yes to 1 and 2 and not 3, I'd really like to understand your reasoning.

I despise those self promoting twatwaffles -- Tuna

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Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

Mongo_76 wrote:

1) Do you agree that this team is not really in position to win this year?

2) If so, do you think that next year is a much more likely year for them to begin competing as younger players grow into their positions and (hopefully) make a run?

3) If so, do you think banking that 8 million cap we re paying him this year and rolling into next year is a better use of that cap?

If you answered yes to 1 and 2 and not 3, I'd really like to understand your reasoning.


1)  This team isn't in a position to win it all this year.   But what I have trouble with is with the bears with plenty of cap space, and not "playing for 2017," and say cutting him is a valid choice--give me a guy the 8 mil will be better spent on.  You brought up Skuta, and while more valueable in that he'll probably give you more than 4-6 games, he's not as effective as McPhee if McPhee is healty.

So now this is a slippery slope, because available is Elvis Dumervil--who I would be way more thrilled about if he wasn't going on what now--32, 33? 

Dumervil gives you a better defensive unit in more games, but he's got a closely approaching expiration date that is slightly questionable in 2017 and even more beyond; unless he knows how to cheat Father Time.

Plus Dumervil doesn't fit into your playing/contending post-2017 season.  But if you're putting gas pedal to floor, I wouldn't let him go to Denver later this upcoming week or whenever Dumervil is going to work out for them after Baltimore cut him.  I'd have signed him already.

2)  Who is McPhee standing in the way of?  Not like Willie Young is a promising youngster who's a victim of lack-of-reps anymore, he's 30 and got his deal.  Lamarr Houston?  Houston  may not last training camp, especially if Pace is active and plucks an unlucky non-PS addition another team was hoping for.  I doubt he'd block Floyd, who cant afford to take stupid concussions--but that's another can of worms.  Acho?  Skuta?  Not really likely.

Undrafted free agents Hendrick Ekpe/Isaiah Irving/Alex Scearce?  If we see a tour-de-force summer camp and preseason camp--its certainly a discussion worth having.

If we had another promising young buck with Floyd--I'm more towards cutting McPhee to favor that player's development--but there is none.  I think there's better grounds to cut him if you have a plan B.  But with Acho, Houston, and Young with Floyd--there is no 'plan B.'

This is breaking news from CNN...........or Fox..........or whatever--Fuck you

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Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

Mongo_76 wrote:
Bear-man 11 wrote:

To that point...

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30000 … amp;sr=amp

He won't even turn 29 until December. 

He's still a young man, with NFL experience, and has somewhat of an untapped potential.

I'm not a huge fan either, but there's no harm whatsoever in giving him another year to prove himself.

1) Do you agree that this team is not really in position to win this year?

2) If so, do you think that next year is a much more likely year for them to begin competing as younger players grow into their positions and (hopefully) make a run?

3) If so, do you think banking that 8 million cap we re paying him this year and rolling into next year is a better use of that cap?

If you answered yes to 1 and 2 and not 3, I'd really like to understand your reasoning.

1) Yes

2) Yes, however, next year will depend on this year's record (i.e. draft position), injuries, etc. 

Also, the main point I made was that he's still only 28 years old.  He could still be a part of the team going forward.

3) As I alluded to above, it's not an either/or situation.  It's fluid.  How will other rostered players on questionable contracts perform this year?  Won't there be other cuts made and opportunities to make up that 8M?

fishing > work

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Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

Bear-man 11 wrote:
Mongo_76 wrote:
Bear-man 11 wrote:

To that point...

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30000 … amp;sr=amp

He won't even turn 29 until December. 

He's still a young man, with NFL experience, and has somewhat of an untapped potential.

I'm not a huge fan either, but there's no harm whatsoever in giving him another year to prove himself.

1) Do you agree that this team is not really in position to win this year?

2) If so, do you think that next year is a much more likely year for them to begin competing as younger players grow into their positions and (hopefully) make a run?

3) If so, do you think banking that 8 million cap we re paying him this year and rolling into next year is a better use of that cap?

If you answered yes to 1 and 2 and not 3, I'd really like to understand your reasoning.

1) Yes

2) Yes, however, next year will depend on this year's record (i.e. draft position), injuries, etc. 

Also, the main point I made was that he's still only 28 years old.  He could still be a part of the team going forward.

He's 28 with the knees of a 38 year old. I see no value in him this year with those knees. And I definitely do not see him as having a longer term role on this team.

3) As I alluded to above, it's not an either/or situation.  It's fluid.  How will other rostered players on questionable contracts perform this year?  Won't there be other cuts made and opportunities to make up that 8M?

That 8 million if banked until next year could be used for a FA WR, an OLB, or to pay to keep one of our younger FA's like Hicks or Wright.

GIving it to a broken down OLB who likely will only be able to go half the snaps IF he's healthy (much less if not) doesn't make sense to me.

I despise those self promoting twatwaffles -- Tuna

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25 ( edited by Mongo_76 05-21-17 11:47)

Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

2)  Who is McPhee standing in the way of?

You read the question wrong. It wasn't even close to what I asked.

It wasn't who he was in the way of at that position, it was purely whether you think we will be in better position to compete in 2018 vs 2017 as younger players on the team develop.

One thing seems to be clear to me, the Bears have hit the rest button.

Now, it's not as dramatic as the reset button that Theo hit, but it's pretty close.

There are what? 5 Players left from Emery/Angelo?

More, and a point I made earlier, we are 30+ million under the cap. That's more than any team I remember in recent team history. The FA's we brought in this year feel a lot more like "fill the roster" players than impact players.

I don't think 2017 is being viewed as a go-for-it season.

To me, it feels a lot more like a "let's get another high draft pick" season.

I despise those self promoting twatwaffles -- Tuna

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Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

That 8 million if banked until next year could be used for a FA WR, an OLB, or to pay to keep one of our younger FA's like Hicks or Wright.
GIving it to a broken down OLB who likely will only be able to go half the snaps IF he's healthy (much less if not) doesn't make sense to me.

With 30 mill in cap space the Bears have plenty of money to resign whomever they like and over pay the 2 biggest FA's next offseason(outside of QB) and still be in good cap shape.

If you want more and feel the need to cut a broken down OLB I would choose Houston who has blown out both knees since coming to Chicago.

When healthy McPhee was playing over 80% of defensive snaps.  IMO I think it's worth the financial risk to see if he has gotten past the knee/shoulder injuries and can be a leader of the defense.

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Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

To me, it feels a lot more like a "let's get another high draft pick" season.

They will also be in a great position to trade down with Trubisky in the fold and accumulate a lot a of draft picks for the QB's who are going to be coming back next year.

Not understanding the salary cap rollover, haven't read much about it, I thought there was an amount they were required to spend every year? I'm not much of a cap expert but it doesn't seem that the players would be happy with the Bears not spending even 80% of the cap and it would feel like some competitive advantage in future years if you could just rolling it over until you absolutely had to spend it.

"It's time to man up and turn things around" - Kyle Long prior to win over Green Bay on Thanksgiving

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Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

Mongo_76 wrote:
Bear-man 11 wrote:
Mongo_76 wrote:
Bear-man 11 wrote:

To that point...

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30000 … amp;sr=amp

He won't even turn 29 until December. 

He's still a young man, with NFL experience, and has somewhat of an untapped potential.

I'm not a huge fan either, but there's no harm whatsoever in giving him another year to prove himself.

1) Do you agree that this team is not really in position to win this year?

2) If so, do you think that next year is a much more likely year for them to begin competing as younger players grow into their positions and (hopefully) make a run?

3) If so, do you think banking that 8 million cap we re paying him this year and rolling into next year is a better use of that cap?

If you answered yes to 1 and 2 and not 3, I'd really like to understand your reasoning.

1) Yes

2) Yes, however, next year will depend on this year's record (i.e. draft position), injuries, etc. 

Also, the main point I made was that he's still only 28 years old.  He could still be a part of the team going forward.

He's 28 with the knees of a 38 year old. I see no value in him this year with those knees. And I definitely do not see him as having a longer term role on this team.

3) As I alluded to above, it's not an either/or situation.  It's fluid.  How will other rostered players on questionable contracts perform this year?  Won't there be other cuts made and opportunities to make up that 8M?

That 8 million if banked until next year could be used for a FA WR, an OLB, or to pay to keep one of our younger FA's like Hicks or Wright.

GIving it to a broken down OLB who likely will only be able to go half the snaps IF he's healthy (much less if not) doesn't make sense to me.

You don't like McPhee.  Got it.  But...

Knees of a 38 year old?  Whaaa?

I didn't get my knee age chart and matching decoder ring, but all I know is his year of birth says he's 28 years old and will be that age until December.

The rest is pure speculation.

fishing > work

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Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

That 8 million if banked until next year could be used for a FA WR, an OLB, or to pay to keep one of our younger FA's like Hicks or Wright.

Yeah....and you know what? It could've been spent on those positions this FA too! Why wasn't it? This team was swimming in CAP space going into FA and now.... they're still swimming in it.

Even if McPhee was cut, what in the world makes you think that money would get spent making the team better? There is pretty much zero evidence to support that theory over 3 offseasons now. Your talking in pure hope nothing else.

More, and a point I made earlier, we are 30+ million under the cap. That's more than any team I remember in recent team history. The FA's we brought in this year feel a lot more like "fill the roster" players than impact players.

I don't think 2017 is being viewed as a go-for-it season.

Great, the team is gonna have a ton of CAP room next year. Now tell me what that actually means, cos from where i stand CAP space is meaningless if you're not prepared to spend it. Its just numbers on a screen.

Wasn't this the FA that Pace was gonna commit and spend real money on the team? Cos i recall him saying exactly that in the end of season presser. Right after he said "these results aren't good enough" and "we hear you" and "this teams going to get better". And who did he bring in? Mike f_cking Glennon and Dion Simms. WOW!!

But i totally agree about this years players SM, they do feel like fill-in's. And i know that cos this is exactly what Pace filled his team with......2 years ago!!

If 2017 isn't a go for it year, which we basically all know is the situation, then f_ck the Bears!!! I don't give a flying f_ck about "next year", its been next year for 3 damn seasons now! I want this team to start winning this year! It amazes me how there's sections of the fanbase who are still lapping this sh_t up. "Next year". Right. We've sat thru 23 losses in 2 seasons, f_ck next year, WIN THIS YEAR ASSHOLES!!!

The Bears are not a serious football team anymore. They're down there with the Browns and the Jags. Next year next year.

You know who's a serious team? The Steelers. Remember they had a bit of a rebuild a few years back? They went .500 for two seasons then got right back to double digit wins in a season. Hell the Eagles were rebuilding after Chip Kelly trashed their roster, with a #2 overall QB, and they went a game under .500 last season. Hell even the godamm Bucs went from a 2 win team to a 9-7 playoff contention team in the space of 2 years. What is this witchcraft other teams possess?

But its all good fellas, NEXT YEAR! Pass the koolaid!

Monday Morning Rant over.

Oh and no, you don't cut McPhee. Yes he's injury prone, but he's also talented. This team is talent deficient all over the roster. And they don't need the money. Case closed.

Director of Karma Weaponization

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30

Re: Who We Need to Exceed Expectations in 2017

What is this witchcraft other teams possess?

A Quarterback.

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