1

Topic: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

As a result of recent signings, what was a major liability in 2016 could very well end up being the strongest unit for Cleveland in 2017.

I don't think it is much of a stretch at this point to proclaim that Joe Thomas (LT), Joel Bitonio (LG), J.C. Tretter (C) and Kevin Zeitler (RG) will be the starters.  That's 80% of the starting O-line.  And, that leaves only two players currently on the roster vying for that fifth starting spot at Right Tackle;

  • Cam Erving *signed thru 2018*

        Cap Hit = $2,571,564, Dead Money = $5,571,722, Cap Gain/Loss = $3,000,158

  • Shon Coleman *signed thru 2019*

        Cap Hit = $784,884, Dead Money = $590,652, Cap Gain/Loss = $194,232

In addition, there are seven other players currently on the roster who will be fighting for a back-up Center/Guard spot or the Right Tackle spot;

  • Marcus Martin *signed thru 2017* (Claimed off waivers from Seattle)

        Cap Hit = $1,797,000, Dead Money = $0, Cap Gain\Loss = $1,797,000

  • Alvin Bailey *signed thru 2018*

        Cap Hit = $2,333,333, Dead Money = $666,667, Cap Gain\Loss = $1,666,666

  • John Greco *signed thru 2017*

        Cap Hit = $975,000, Dead Money = $0, Cap Gain\Loss = $975,000

  • Spencer Drango *signed thru 2019*

        Cap Hit = $591,913, Dead Money = $155,739, Cap Gain\Loss = $436,174

  • Gabe Ikard *signed thru 2017*

        Cap Hit = $615,000, Dead Money = $0, Cap Gain\Loss = $615,000

  • Anthony Fabiano *signed thru 2017*

        Cap Hit = $540,000, Dead Money = $0, Cap Gain\Loss = $540,000

  • Austin Reiter *signed thru 2017*

        Cap Hit = $540,000, Dead Money = $0, Cap Gain\Loss = $540,000

Obviously, nothing precludes the Browns from drafting another offensive lineman (or two) in the upcoming draft.  But, if they don't . . . who from this list do you think will not make it to the 53 man roster?

Do not confuse effort with results.

Share

Thank you!: TopDawg, IrishDawg42

Thumbs up Thumbs down

2

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

I'll let you guys guess on this one...Great topic, but without the insider information of watching all practices as well as the class work..I couldn't begin to know which guy will win that battle.

Time to become relevant again in Cleveland...HERE WE GO BROWNIES, HERE WE GO, WOOF WOOF!!!

Share

Thumbs up Thumbs down

3 ( edited by Lyman 03-19-17 11:17)

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

IrishDawg42 wrote:

I'll let you guys guess on this one...Great topic, but without the insider information of watching all practices as well as the class work..I couldn't begin to know which guy will win that battle.

We are not privy to a ton of information on virtually every topic.  That's never stopped us before.

*SCRATCH*

Do not confuse effort with results.

Share

Thumbs up Thumbs down

4 ( edited by brett11253 03-19-17 11:40)

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

Erving sucks. Greco should stay. Other than that I don't know

Share

Thank you!: Lyman

Thumbs up Thumbs down

5 ( edited by IrishDawg42 03-20-17 05:43)

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

Lyman wrote:
IrishDawg42 wrote:

I'll let you guys guess on this one...Great topic, but without the insider information of watching all practices as well as the class work..I couldn't begin to know which guy will win that battle.

We are not privy to a ton of information on virtually every topic.  That's never stopped us before.

*SCRATCH*

Haha, touche

Let me say then, I am ignorant and don't have enough access to film on these guys to make an adequate decision. As bad as Erving was, he may be better suited to RT, but without any film, I can't say there aren't others better that will beat him out.

The other discussions that I personally weigh in on, I have something to go on, not just a personal "belief" but some type of proof to form an opinion. In this case, that proof isn't there. If we were debating their validity to be drafted, we could go back to college tape, but now they are pros and have had professional coaching, I have nothing to go on.


This is very similar to Jimmy Garoppolo, I have only 6 quarters to go on, and many other examples of QBs that have done something similar in that system I'm the past. So, from my "proof" I can discern that the system makes it rather easy to set a QB up to succeed. Without that system in place, it would seem much less likely that same QB will have the same result. So I am very careful in suggesting that he would.


I just don't have any answers to my own questions on this subject Lyman..Maybe others will that have dove a little deeper in.

Time to become relevant again in Cleveland...HERE WE GO BROWNIES, HERE WE GO, WOOF WOOF!!!

Share

Thumbs up Thumbs down

6

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

brett11253 wrote:

Erving sucks. Greco should stay. Other than that I don't know

I tend to agree with you, but . . .

I'll let Slopper defend his Nole, Eving.  Unfortunately, I think $5.5M in Dead Money with a $3.0M cap hit speaks volumes to this front office.  We can only hope Coleman practices and plays well enough to nail Erving's ass to the bench.

Regarding Greco . . . IMO,  his play over the past few years "should" earn him a roster spot.  Unfortunately, he is on the wrong side of 30 and his financial numbers ($0 dead money, $.75M cap gain) work against him.

Do not confuse effort with results.

Share

Thank you!: IrishDawg42

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

7

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

Your FO bought a 2nd round pick next year for $16MM and still has over $60MM left, I don't see why a $3M hit for a guy who apparently can't play would bother them.

Share

Thumbs up Thumbs down

8

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

Lyman wrote:

But, if they don't . . . who from this list do you think will not make it to the 53 man roster?

Just my opinion...

Cam Erving *signed thru 2018*]

Cam Erving has been hot garbage and even stopper - who would take a bullet for most of the FSU alum's in the NFL - can't defend him.  That said, he's young (24), athletic, and still learning the game (was a defensive linemen at FSU initally).  He's more of a quick, technique guy and not a guy who's got the strength to hold up against rushers, so he's a better fit at the outside where that isn't such a liability.  Let him battle for the RT spot.  Plus, he's got a sizable cap hit.

Shon Coleman *signed thru 2019*

Coleman never really got a chance to play due to missing training camp with school, pre-season with injury, and most of the regular season was behind other guys playing catch-up.  If he were healthy, some people had him pegged as a late-first, early second pick (we took him in the third), so the talent is there.  He should get plenty of looks in the pre-season at one of the most contested position battles: right tackle.

Marcus Martin *signed thru 2017* (Claimed off waivers from Seattle)

Marcus Martin is interesting... played in a terrible system (San Fran) for a terrible coach and wasn't awful.  Only surrendered 3.5 sacks in 819 snaps (14 starts) but fell out of favor last season.  He's even younger than Erving (23), despite being in the league a year longer.  At worst, he's insurance if JC Tretter's injury history becomes a thorn in the line's side.

Alvin Bailey *signed thru 2018*

Odd man out for me, but I could be wrong.  Bailey isn't great - surrendering 3.0 sacks in only 373 snaps played.  He had the off-field incident (DUI, I think), and cost Jonathan Cooper a roster spot.  Dallas thought enough of Cooper to keep him, so who knows what this coaching staff sees in Bailey.  He'll be 26 to start the season, one of the oldest players fighting for a spot, actually.

John Greco *signed thru 2017*

Greco should start the season on the PUP as he recovers from Lisfranc.  He'll automatically not be on the 53-man roster, but is valuable as a back-up swing lineman.

Spencer Drango *signed thru 2019*

Drango played well in spot duty as a rookie.  He was fifth round pick by the regime and can play guard/tackle spots.  He's safe.  He's likely the heir-apparent to Greco.

Gabe Ikard *signed thru 2017*

He's listed as a center and long-snapper per ESPN and we signed a couple centers, as well as extending Charlie Hughlett to a six-year deal.  He's likely gone playing center in a suddenly crowded room.  I see him gone.

Anthony Fabiano *signed thru 2017*

Same with Ikard... a center in a crowded room and was only an upgrade over bust Cam Erving.

Austin Reiter *signed thru 2017*

Gone.

My guess for the final line:

LT: Joe Thomas, Spencer Drango
LG: Joel Bitonio, S. Drango
C: JC Tretter, Marcus Martin
RG: Kevin Zeitler, M. Martin
RT: Cam Erving, Shon Coleman

PUP: John Greco (RG/C)

More of a prophet, less of a poster.™  #TeamCody

Share

Thank you!: TopDawg, Lyman

Thumbs up Thumbs down

9 ( edited by Lyman 03-20-17 10:14)

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

Underdog wrote:

Your FO bought a 2nd round pick next year for $16MM and still has over $60MM left, I don't see why a $3M hit for a guy who apparently can't play would bother them.

In the words of the late Everett Dirksen, "A few million dollars here, a few million dollars there, pretty soon you're talking real money".


[edit]  Actually he said "BILLION".  I'm guilty of hammering to fit.

Do not confuse effort with results.

Share

Thumbs up Thumbs down

10

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

SAS wrote:

My guess for the final line:

LT: Joe Thomas, Spencer Drango
LG: Joel Bitonio, S. Drango
C: JC Tretter, Marcus Martin
RG: Kevin Zeitler, M. Martin
RT: Cam Erving, Shon Coleman

PUP: John Greco (RG/C)

To be honest, I hadn't thought of putting Greco on the PUP list.  Now I know why we keep you around, Sammy!

As bad as Eving has been, I can't see him beating out Coleman for the starter's job at RT.  And . . . if they draft an OT in the first two days, his days as a Brown could be numbered even with the $8.6M in dead money and cap hit.

Do not confuse effort with results.

Share

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

11

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

Lyman wrote:

As bad as Eving has been, I can't see him beating out Coleman for the starter's job at RT.  And . . . if they draft an OT in the first two days, his days as a Brown could be numbered even with the $8.6M in dead money and cap hit.

Erving's no doubt had his struggles, but he was widely considered both a first round prospect and a smart pick by the prior regime.  His biggest issues are where to play him.

Erving is too tall and his arms are too long to play inside (Ethan Pocic, the top-rated center in this class stands 2" taller with 1" shorter arms).  Simple as that.  He isn't a mauler or a stout player, so he gets man-handled inside given his height.  What holds him back from playing inside should actually help him playing outside.  He initially was a tackle at Florida State and only had success inside due to his athleticism against ACC competition (different ball game in the NFL).

None of this guarantees he'll be successful - injuries and motor also seem to be a concern.  I just think given his athleticism and status as a first round pick, he'll be given more opportunities to succeed and stick.

More of a prophet, less of a poster.™  #TeamCody

Share

Thumbs up Thumbs down

12

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

One thing to keep in mind in regards to Center...J.C. Tretter has shown ability, but he's got a history of missing a lot of games. Here's the pro history report:

Tretter was selected in the fourth round (122nd overall) by the Green Bay Packers in the 2013 NFL Draft.[1][2] On May 10, 2013, he signed a contract with the Packers.[3] Tretter was placed on reserve/physically unable to perform on August 27, 2013.[4] On December 10, 2013, he was activated from the physically unable to perform list.[5]

On September 3, 2014, Tretter was placed on injured reserve – designated for return.[6] He was activated from injured reserve – designated for return on November 3, 2014.[7]

In 2016, Tretter started seven games for the Packers before going down with a knee injury in Week 7. He was inactive for the rest of the games in the regular season before having surgery on January 17, 2017.[8] He was placed on injured reserve on January 21, 2017, a day before the NFC Championship matchup against the Atlanta Falcons.[9]

Tough to add much to the SAS analysis of the situation, though I think Austin Reiter may have a chance to stick, if he can rebound from the knee....  We obviously didn't get much more than a sample, but Reiter looked great last year for about 3 and a half quarters... and then typical Browns luck happened...

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2016/10/05/cl … in-reiter/

let it ride

Share

Thank you!: SAS, Lyman

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

13

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

[notify]top dawg[/notify]... I think Tretter's injury issues are a concern.  Obviously, the Packers felt he was expendable, likely due in large part to those.  Center depth is going to be important and Fabiano and Reiter can both play that spot.

Fabiano and Reiter are both eligible for the practice squad.  I think the Browns will keep them there (at least one of them), but I don't see them making the final 53.

More of a prophet, less of a poster.™  #TeamCody

Share

Thumbs up Thumbs down

14

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

Injuries, or to be more precise, a lack thereof may be more important in 2017.  We've all seen over the past two seasons what a single key injury (Mack in 2015) and the epidemic we saw in 2016 can do to this unit.

More so than any other unit, this O-line MUST stay intact in order to perform as a unit.  Playing three card monty with an O-line can only bring disaster (again).  Only 20% of this starting unit (Thomas and Zeitler) has a history of availability.  That's why keeping back-ups that can seamlessly step up in the event of an injury (or two) is so important.

Do not confuse effort with results.

Share

Thumbs up +2 Thumbs down

15

Re: 2017 O-Line . . . Odd Man out?

Lyman wrote:
brett11253 wrote:

Erving sucks. Greco should stay. Other than that I don't know

I tend to agree with you, but . . .

I'll let Slopper defend his Nole, Eving.  Unfortunately, I think $5.5M in Dead Money with a $3.0M cap hit speaks volumes to this front office.  We can only hope Coleman practices and plays well enough to nail Erving's ass to the bench.

Regarding Greco . . . IMO,  his play over the past few years "should" earn him a roster spot.  Unfortunately, he is on the wrong side of 30 and his financial numbers ($0 dead money, $.75M cap gain) work against him.

Yea, it wouldn't make financial sense but it'd make me feel a whole lot better.

Share

Thumbs up Thumbs down