16

Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Cleveland? Just dump everybody and start all over again from scratch.

Be cool like Danny Trejo

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

top dawg wrote:

Lets hope Hue isn't going to make everyone wait until Sunday to announce the starting QB vs. Cincinnati....  My guess is that we will be back in RG3 mode.

From most reports, it sounds like Griffin is going to get the start.

I know some are still holding out hope for Cam Erving at Center, but I've seen enough of that. He's looking more and more like the "typical" "Ray Farmer" 1st rounder, and it doesn't seem to matter where we put him on the line, he struggles....smh.

I can't blast the Browns too badly for Erving.  He was touted as a first round prospect and top center in that draft class.  The F/O was being prudent by drafting an heir-apparent to Alex Mack who was likely going to walk without a massive contract, so the need and talent all fit.

It's easy to hate on Erving, too, because he's been an abject failure, but it easy to forget that he's a converted defensive tackle who played at multiple spots along the o-line in both college and the pros.  He's only made 13 starts in the NFL and I think only nine of them were at center.

A competent o-line coach should be able to get more out of him.

We absolutely need to address the Center position, or it's not gonna matter who we have at QB...

Not at all opposed to that, especially if Erving is better suited somewhere else along the line.  If, for arguments sake, he projects better at RT, we can take a center in the second round and plug them in Day 1 and you fill two spots with one pick.

Last note on Erving... for as bad as he's been, Austin Pasztor actually leads the NFL in QB hits and sacks surrendered.  He is, regardless of position, the worst in the NFL.

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18

Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

2017 Essential Reading: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2652 … on-clowney

http://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/2015/07/28/garrett-mid-thamel.jpg

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19 ( edited by Lyman 12-05-16 02:22)

Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Good read, Sam.  I wouldn't be opposed to Garrett with the #1 pick. 

One small caveat though . . .

The player who this article spent a lot of time comparing Garrett to, Clowny,  built his collegiate resume in the ACC.  IF, the ACC could have more than single team worth a shit in any given year, then maybe I could have a better feel for the quality of that competition.  But they haven't.  Teams have been hiding out in the ACC for decades.

What does that have to do with Garrett?  The mighty SEC in which Garrett plays as of late hasn't been all that mighty.  Today's SEC reminds me of the "Big 2 and little 8" conference of years past.

Do not confuse effort with results.

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Lyman wrote:

The player who this article spent a lot of time comparing Garrett to, Clowny,  built his collegiate resume in the ACC.

I think you're thinking of that other South Carolina school.  USC Gamecocks are in the SEC East.

The mighty SEC in which Garrett plays as of late hasn't been all that mighty.  Today's SEC reminds me of the "Big 2 and little 8" conference of years past.

This year, I totally agree.  The Big 10 is back on top as best football conference in the country.  The conference was down in 2015 as well.

2014?  A&M had to play #9, #12, #3, #7, and #3 again.  That was the year he won SEC Defensive Freshman of the Year, breaking Clowney's previous record for sacks.

And while the conference has been down the last year or two, they still produce a crap-ton of NFL talent - led all conferences in 2015 with 54 selections (next-most was 47 for the ACC) and led all conferences again in 2016 with 51 selections (next-most was 47 for the Big 10).

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Lyman wrote:

Good read, Sam.  I wouldn't be opposed to Garrett with the #1 pick.

This sentence three years ago would have sounded absurd, but the Browns need to take a lesson from the Oakland Raiders in roster building.

In 2014, Oakland got a supreme pass rusher at the top of the draft (K. Mack) and picked up their franchise passer in the second round.

To me, Garrett is the clear-cut top talent in this year's class.  He's been the best player since high school at his position.  And despite being more physically gifted than Clowney (not sure why that's not the narrative of the draft yet), he's actually got a work-ethic.

On sitting out or taking plays off to preserve his draft status...

"I've heard it, but I'm against it," he said during media days, per NFL.com's Chase Goodbread. "I want to be one of the best that's ever come through A&M, and that would just be betraying the people I've played with and the people who have come before me, who have worked their butt off.

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22

Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Watching this debacle unfold on MNF. Whew! It's ugly for Jets fans. No doubt that Ryan Fitzpatrick (and his civil war beard) are going to hit the market in the offseason.....I know this is the "needs and wants" thread, but let me be the first to say that we don't need or want this guy. Just wanted to make that clear.....

let it ride

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23

Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

SAS:

My bad on Clowney's school.  For some reason I had it in my head that he went to Clemson.  Glad you're around to keep me straight.

Do not confuse effort with results.

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24 ( edited by top dawg 12-06-16 04:17)

Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Assuming he starts Sunday, does anybody think that RG3 will be able to avoid the big hits and make it through the game?  Have we even had any QB accomplish that yet this season? (serious question)

I just want to see some progress, and by that, I mean a WIN...I don't care that it could mean San Fran gets the first pick. Not having your franchise associated with the all time worst season record is more important......Hue says he's still got a few tricks up his sleeve.  Well lets hope he's been saving it for Cincinnati.  The Bengal defense has been playing well lately. They will be confident. Maybe if they get a little over aggressive we could burn them on a trick play or two, but more than anything, the Browns just need to eliminate the mistakes.  If Cleveland can play mistake free football for 4 quarters, it'll go a long way towards victory.....If we can't get the W this week, we may have to hope for a huge snow game in Buffalo the following week.  Get those guys in another 8-0 blizzard game like we did about 10 years ago in Cle...Anybody remember that one?  I'd love it!

let it ride

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25

Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

that post was probably better suited for the DPL, but oh well...

let it ride

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

top dawg wrote:

Assuming he starts Sunday, does anybody think that RG3 will be able to avoid the big hits and make it through the game?  Have we even had any QB accomplish that yet this season? (serious question)

I think we need to see him stay healthy for not just this game, but at least the next four.  If he can't stay healthy, I think his status on the roster for 2017 is in big trouble.

I just want to see some progress, and by that, I mean a WIN...I don't care that it could mean San Fran gets the first pick.

Glass half-full here... if we both finish with a 1-15 record and they get #1 overall, that's fine.  They'll likely take a QB anyway and Myles Garrett still falls to us.

Absolute worst case is they take Garrett and we take Jonathan Allen (DE/DT), the second-best player in the draft.

Not having your franchise associated with the all time worst season record is more important......

Agreed.  I think this is Cleveland's best chance.  December has been historically bad for the Browns and Grossi put some numbers to it... 4-25 since 2010 in December or early January games, but we're playing two losing teams and a .500 team.

Hue says he's still got a few tricks up his sleeve.  Well lets hope he's been saving it for Cincinnati.  The Bengal defense has been playing well lately. They will be confident. Maybe if they get a little over aggressive we could burn them on a trick play or two, but more than anything, the Browns just need to eliminate the mistakes.

Obviously, Griffin will give Hue the long ball back in his repertoire which should help.  However, the Browns need to remember (or learn, maybe) to lean on the running game.

Griffin hasn't played in two months and it was almost two years before that.  He's going to be rusty.  He's going to make mistakes.  He has to try to limit those mistakes and the gameplan needs to try to make up for this.

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Lyman wrote:

SAS:

My bad on Clowney's school.  For some reason I had it in my head that he went to Clemson.  Glad you're around to keep me straight.

Of course!   *THUMBSUP*

Clemson's had better draft classes and better prospects in recent history, so it makes sense.

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28

Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Anyone who thinks the Browns are tanking this season... we're not the only ones:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 … n-week-14/

Colin Kaepernick will start for 49ers in Week 14

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29 ( edited by IrishDawg42 12-08-16 03:06)

Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

SAS wrote:
Lyman wrote:

Good read, Sam.  I wouldn't be opposed to Garrett with the #1 pick.

This sentence three years ago would have sounded absurd, but the Browns need to take a lesson from the Oakland Raiders in roster building.

In 2014, Oakland got a supreme pass rusher at the top of the draft (K. Mack) and picked up their franchise passer in the second round.

To me, Garrett is the clear-cut top talent in this year's class.  He's been the best player since high school at his position.  And despite being more physically gifted than Clowney (not sure why that's not the narrative of the draft yet), he's actually got a work-ethic.

On sitting out or taking plays off to preserve his draft status...

"I've heard it, but I'm against it," he said during media days, per NFL.com's Chase Goodbread. "I want to be one of the best that's ever come through A&M, and that would just be betraying the people I've played with and the people who have come before me, who have worked their butt off.

Sorry, I've been out of state for the last few days for work without a chance to put much thought into this thread...

I just spent my lunch hour watching Clowney...er Garrett's game film.

I just don't see it SAS...

I know the talking heads have touted this kid as a once in a decade talent, but what exactly are you seeing on film to back that up? I didn't care for what I saw on film, and despite his declaration of not believing in taking plays off, he does it consistently.

After watching all the games, I decided to dive into his stats a bit, and some more alarms started sounding...

He's had 32.5 career sacks, sounds GREAT on the surface...he has also had 8 career multi sack games, 3 his Freshman year, 3 his Sophomore year and 2 his Junior year...THAT stat doesn't jump out at me...his multi sack games make up 22 of his career 32.5 career sacks... That means 10 other games in which he managed to get 1 sack, or 18 games out of 34 games, or roughly half his games.

Now, here is where it starts to get a little muddled, his multi sack games:
2014;
Lamar FCS school 8-4, 2 sacks
Rice 8-5 plays in conference USA, 2.5 sacks
Louisiana Monroe 4-7, plays in the Sun Belt Conference, 3.5 sacks
8 of his 11.5 sacks

2015;
Arizona State 6-7, 2 sacks
Nevada 7-6 plays in Mountain West Conference, 3.5 sacks
South Carolina 3-9/1-7 in SEC, 2 sacks
7 of his 12.5 sacks

2016;
Auburn 8-4 SEC(possibly the worst year for SEC in 20 years), 2 sacks ONLY legitimate sack performance of his career, imho.
Texas San Antonio , 4.5 sacks want to know about this team

6.5 of his 8.5 sacks

Where is the quality that bumps this kid up to one of the best in a decade, and the best of his position over the past 3 years?

I don't see it on film, and now looking at his stats, he seems to me to be an over hyped media player.

(edit:) I also don't see the QB pressures you want in a pass rusher, AND maybe worst thing of all, he is RARELY double teamed...and I mean RARE.

I am disqualifying him from MY PERSONAL #1 overall draft pick list. There has to be someone better than this to take #1 overall, if not, trade out of that spot if you don't love a QB.

Not sure if I'll have time today, but I want to take a look at some more the top guys and get some impressions as we wait until the Jan 16th deadline to declare.



(edit #2:) Full disclosure, I also was not enamored by Mack when he came out, I was OBVIOUSLY very wrong about that young man.

Time to become relevant again in Cleveland...HERE WE GO BROWNIES, HERE WE GO, WOOF WOOF!!!

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

lol!  Oh boy.  Here we go already...

If we stay at #1, I believe we should take Garrett.  All I want is for the Browns to take the best football player on the board, and I want them to stick with that plan throughout all 18 selections, or whatever the hell they accumulated, except for maybe one....Use the Philly pick to get the QB prospect.  Might have to reach a little, but it's necessary.  We have to take a shot....Trubisky, Watson, Kizer, whoever, I believe we must come out with one of the top rated prospects, especially if we finish our run to tie Detroit for worst record ever. It's not gonna fly if we have to "trust" Hue on another mid-round head scratcher.....But After round one, for God sakes forget position, WE NEED EVERYTHING!  Just take the best player regardless...

let it ride

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