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Topic: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

OK, someone said we needed some out of the lounge threads dedicated to this upcoming off season.

I personally think the draft threads will need to wait until January as we will be turning out wheels until after the bowl games when declarations for the draft become official.

SO...This thread is to get us through the month of December. Anyone that gets an idea in their head about ANYTHING off season related can come here to post, including draft talk if you so desire. You can throw out half baked scenarios, totally thought out procedures, or just plain voice your opinion on who needs to leave the roster/coaching staff/front office. PLEASE, I am begging you, give us your reasoning in a thoughtful manner so that this doesn't turn into an avalanche of trolling just to get the rest of us worked up...I.E. Haslem must go because he is worthless, not really much thought put into this..explain WHY you believe Haslem is worthless.





Let me begin with an example:

I heard on the radio yesterday, the talking heads were discussing the holes in the Browns roster. It was mentioned that the Browns drafted Shon Coleman to play guard, but because of circumstances, he has been at RT all year rotating in around injuries. So, realistically, IF he can be a viable backup guard, that position really is NOT a need, rather with a healthy Bitonio, it is a strength with Greco there as well. They were saying, and after hearing the arguments I agree, the most important acquisition this off season on either side of the ball is a center. IF you can get an Alex Mack type player, everything else falls in line. Joe Thomas at LT solid, healthy Bitonio at LG solid, Greco at RG solid...then all you need is a fit at RT to have a strength on offense in your line. They also mentioned Erving needing to be moved back to tackle as he isn't an inside lineman...but not necessarily being the answer at RT...So they said do you want to trust your most important acquisition to the amateur draft? No, spend some of your league leading cap room on a free agent center that can come in and fill the hole left by Alex Mack.

That said...here are the only center free agents available:

Joe Hawley C 28 TB $1,664,063     UFA Starter in TB
Cody Wallace C 32 PIT    $1,160,000 UFA NOT a starter
John Sullivan     C 31 WAS $885,000 UFA NOT a starter
Ryan Wendell C 30 CAR $885,000 UFA NOT a starter
A.Q. Shipley     C 30 ARI    $785,000 UFA starter in Arizona, but is on his 6th team in 5 years, spent mostly on practice squads
Michael Person C     28 KC $760,000 UFA backup guard in KC
Trevor Robinson C 26     ATL    $760,000 UFA available on the street RIGHT NOW if you wanted him
Brian Schwenke C 25     TEN     $656,065 UFA NOT a starter
J.C. Tretter C 25 GB  $643,977     UFA Starter on one of the worst lines in the NFL

So, to break it all down...Hawley is the best of a bad group of free agents at the center position. He will probably cost about $3M per year for a two year deal, then go get another center in the draft fairly early. He would probably still be the best on our current roster if signed.




OK, so give me something good to read, ponder and debate...let's go Browns brother's (and sisters if there are any out there) and anyone else that has an idea.

Maybe this thread will help keep the lounge a little cleaner..

Time to become relevant again in Cleveland...HERE WE GO BROWNIES, HERE WE GO, WOOF WOOF!!!

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

The hot topic this off season will definitely be QUARTERBACK...

Again, hard to discuss options in the draft, when we don't even know who will declare and who will stay in school.

SO, let's discuss our other options...

Free agency: I really don't know who will be touted as the top free agent in 2017, possibly Tony Romo if the Cowboys give him his outright release, at which point the contenders will be vying for his services...but what about Mike Glennon? Has he proven enough to warrant consideration?

Now we must move to the third and final option, trade.

Who would any of you like to consider for trade?

I personally would pay my two cents to explore Jimmy Garoppolo, He is really the only trade option to look at imho. What is the worth to get him? Only one year on contract, so you can't give up much unless a contract extension is agreed upon...without any real evidence that he deserves it mind you. So, I would like to see where the discussion/debate lies at your feet of his worth. Anyone that could help in this conversation is welcome, not just Browns fans.

Also, anyone else you would like to discuss in trade, I am all ears..or in this case eyes.

Time to become relevant again in Cleveland...HERE WE GO BROWNIES, HERE WE GO, WOOF WOOF!!!

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

E..J. Manuel.

I am not suggesting, so much as asking if he is worth even considering. If the Bills dumped him very cheaply would Browns fans want to consider him?

I will say that he got IMO a pretty raw deal with his HC in his rookie campaign sapping any ounce of confidence out of him.  He has size and strength; he has great poise*.  I think he has a shot at being an NFL player, but it'll take a change in scenery.  (* His "poise" needs to be qualified.  E.J. has displayed poise in all situations except for when he's behind center.)

Go Cornell Big Red - County Kilkenny - Go Cats!

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

IrishDawg42 wrote:

Free agency: I really don't know who will be touted as the top free agent in 2017, possibly Tony Romo if the Cowboys give him his outright release, at which point the contenders will be vying for his services...but what about Mike Glennon? Has he proven enough to warrant consideration?

I posted about Glennon in the random thread. I think he could end up being the highest priced 'wolf ticket' this off-season. He's probably a serviceable starter in the Derek Anderson/Brad Johnson mold or type. If Cutler and Romo both hit the market it will keep Glennon's price reasonable considering Ryan Nassib, Ryan Mallett and Landry Jones may all hit the market as well. Glennon won't be had for Drew Stanton money, but you don't want to be the team to pay him Chase Daniel cash. I'm not sure how much sense this makes for the Browns unless they can get him under contract for 5 years, at a severely cut rate/incentive based contract, with the intention of making him the starter and building the team around him. I believe he'll be too high priced to bring on as a potential back-up/competition player.

I personally would pay my two cents to explore Jimmy Garoppolo, He is really the only trade option to look at imho. What is the worth to get him? Only one year on contract, so you can't give up much unless a contract extension is agreed upon...without any real evidence that he deserves it mind you.

Jimmy Garoppolo probably never makes it out of New England. But, if the Patriots were to move him I think that's a strong indicator that Tom Brady has discussed with Bill Belichick the idea of playing well into his mid-forties.

As for Jimmy the player, going into the 2014 draft I tabbed him as my favorite quarterback in the class and from the limited time we have seen him play at the professional level he has done nothing to change my mind. The contract issue would be the biggest problem for a trade, but if he was brought in it would be an obvious move to get a starter and a contract extension would probably happen quickly.

What about A.J. McCarron? I'm not a huge proponent of the guy but there is some obvious ties to the coaching staff. He was solid during his 2015 stint posting a 6 TD, 2 INT stretch over 7 games. He never passed for over 300 but he limited his mistakes and played within the system. Nothing flashy but the pressure to make him the future of the franchise wouldn't exist if the deal was done for a reasonable set of picks.

Unfortunately, a team looking for a quarterback to be a potential starter is going to find some very limited offerings currently employed.

Meaning of life - "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. "

Tim's Website

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

For QB, I would be leery of any QB in NE not named Brady.  Remember Matt GD Cassel? We all know Bryan Hoyer too.  Since the hoodie has been here literally all of the no-name backups have looked stellar but moved on to look average at best.

Manual, Glennon, and McCarron are equally intriguing.  I would take a similar approach as what the Indians do, the "throw poo at the wall" approach.  If these guys want to be a starter it will likely have to be on a bad team (we check that box).  Bring in a few guys with the opportunity to tryout for not only us but the rest of the league as well.  Keep the best 2-4 (think PS).   

The C FA market is pretty weak as ID eluded.  I would love to draft a certain Buckeye as long as it wasn't reaching like they did with Erving.  The C of the future could be on the roster already.  I know it was a short debut, but Reiter looked solid in his sole game and it was against a decent defense.  That would put the onus on finding a serviceable RT as long as everyone is healthy. 

If we are lucky the rest of this season will not be lost and will give an adequate look at some of the young guys (see Jonathan Cooper) and give the team a clear picture at who could start next year, or at least provide depth.

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

What about A.J. McCarron? I'm not a huge proponent of the guy but there is some obvious ties to the coaching staff. He was solid during his 2015 stint posting a 6 TD, 2 INT stretch over 7 games. He never passed for over 300 but he limited his mistakes and played within the system. Nothing flashy but the pressure to make him the future of the franchise wouldn't exist if the deal was done for a reasonable set of picks.

I would give McCarron a look, but unfortunately that's a talk for the 2018 off season. He has one more year on his rookie contract with the Bengals. I don't think an inter division trade would take place for a QB, no matter what the situation.

Time to become relevant again in Cleveland...HERE WE GO BROWNIES, HERE WE GO, WOOF WOOF!!!

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Dogside18 wrote:

For QB, I would be leery of any QB in NE not named Brady.  Remember Matt GD Cassel? We all know Bryan Hoyer too.  Since the hoodie has been here literally all of the no-name backups have looked stellar but moved on to look average at best.

Manual, Glennon, and McCarron are equally intriguing.  I would take a similar approach as what the Indians do, the "throw poo at the wall" approach.  If these guys want to be a starter it will likely have to be on a bad team (we check that box).  Bring in a few guys with the opportunity to tryout for not only us but the rest of the league as well.  Keep the best 2-4 (think PS).   

The C FA market is pretty weak as ID eluded.  I would love to draft a certain Buckeye as long as it wasn't reaching like they did with Erving.  The C of the future could be on the roster already.  I know it was a short debut, but Reiter looked solid in his sole game and it was against a decent defense.  That would put the onus on finding a serviceable RT as long as everyone is healthy. 

If we are lucky the rest of this season will not be lost and will give an adequate look at some of the young guys (see Jonathan Cooper) and give the team a clear picture at who could start next year, or at least provide depth.

I agree with this entire post, the hoodie certainly does have a knack for making QBs look like future HOFers...and made one...

I like Elfein a lot...in fact that 2nd second round draft pick is right about where I would like the Browns to find a center...if Ethan Pocic isn't available there, I wouldn't mind at all if Elfein was the pick.

I would really like to see them get these young guys reps in games...I want a win badly though, so I don't want to sacrifice a win just for reps either.

Time to become relevant again in Cleveland...HERE WE GO BROWNIES, HERE WE GO, WOOF WOOF!!!

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

IrishDawg42 wrote:

I would give McCarron a look, but unfortunately that's a talk for the 2018 off season. He has one more year on his rookie contract with the Bengals. I don't think an inter division trade would take place for a QB, no matter what the situation.

I think the trade could happen, but the price tag the Bengals would put on it could be extremely high.

A lot of it would revolve around Marvin Lewis' employment status with Cincinnati. Ownership has already stated that McCarron could be moved but Marvin has vocally stated he would prefer not to move AJ. If the Bengals were to fire Lewis at the end of this year it might open the door a little wider on that move.

Cleveland would need to put a value on him and make it a 'take it or leave it' kind of offer.

Meaning of life - "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. "

Tim's Website

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

IrishDawg42 wrote:

The hot topic this off season will definitely be QUARTERBACK...

Again, hard to discuss options in the draft, when we don't even know who will declare and who will stay in school.

SO, let's discuss our other options...

Free agency: I really don't know who will be touted as the top free agent in 2017, possibly Tony Romo if the Cowboys give him his outright release, at which point the contenders will be vying for his services...but what about Mike Glennon? Has he proven enough to warrant consideration?

Now we must move to the third and final option, trade.

Who would any of you like to consider for trade?

I personally would pay my two cents to explore Jimmy Garoppolo, He is really the only trade option to look at imho. What is the worth to get him? Only one year on contract, so you can't give up much unless a contract extension is agreed upon...without any real evidence that he deserves it mind you. So, I would like to see where the discussion/debate lies at your feet of his worth. Anyone that could help in this conversation is welcome, not just Browns fans.

Also, anyone else you would like to discuss in trade, I am all ears..or in this case eyes.

I know the Patriots love Jacoby Brissett, so I do believe that a trade for Garoppolo is possible, and I agree that might be an intriguing option worth exploring.   Glennon is also an option I wouldn't mind seeing them pursue...For now, I'm going by the assumption that Cleveland will draft Trubisky.  Heading into next season with Trubisky, Kessler and either Glennon or Jimmy G sounds a lot better to me than our current situation...The question is, are the Browns going to keep RG3 in the plans? Personally,  I think he needs to play well this month to stay in consideration for next season...McCown is showing his age.  He's a gamer, but his accuracy hasn't been there this year, and they should maybe consider offering him a coaching position or something...

let it ride

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

top dawg wrote:

McCown is showing his age.  He's a gamer, but his accuracy hasn't been there this year, and they should maybe consider offering him a coaching position or something...

If Haslam is serious about keeping Hue and this front office intact, this move makes sense on multiple fronts. It shows players the potential for a future with the franchise beyond playing days (something older FA may consider when looking to sign) and a commitment to developing an identity and system on offense.

It keeps a team leader in place. A veteran presence on the sidelines can sometimes be just as influential as one on the field.

Meaning of life - "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women. "

Tim's Website

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Absolutely.  Good points Tim.... McCown understands where he's at in his career.  Some vets are not willing to take the young QB's and help them along, but that can't be said for McCown.  He's a true pro, and I feel he would be an asset for us in that capacity....Dude takes a beating, but doesn't point any fingers.  I have nothing but respect for Josh McCown...

let it ride

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

2017 Offseason Essentials: https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft- … -2017-nfl/

More of a prophet, less of a poster.™  #TeamCody

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13 ( edited by top dawg 12-05-16 01:35)

Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

Lets hope Hue isn't going to make everyone wait until Sunday to announce the starting QB vs. Cincinnati....  My guess is that we will be back in RG3 mode.  At least until the point in the game where he can easily sidestep out of bounds but instead tries to drop the shoulder on Burfict.....And then I guess maybe back to Kessler one more time to see if he can possibly survive....idk.  One of them brings it on himself and one is learning the hard way that you must get the ball out quickly....Maybe we'll see more of Hogan down the stretch.  IMO, it's really difficult to evaluate any QB playing behind this offensive line.   Too many injuries along that front really has set us back in regards to the QB developement.  I know some are still holding out hope for Cam Erving at Center, but I've seen enough of that. He's looking more and more like the "typical" "Ray Farmer" 1st rounder, and it doesn't seem to matter where we put him on the line, he struggles....smh.  We absolutely need to address the Center position, or it's not gonna matter who we have at QB...

BTW:  There just happens to be a really good Center that plays football just down I-71 a ways...If they would scout Ohio State the way they do Baylor, I'm certain they would come away impressed....

let it ride

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

IrishDawg42 wrote:

So they said do you want to trust your most important acquisition to the amateur draft? No, spend some of your league leading cap room on a free agent center that can come in and fill the hole left by Alex Mack.

Respectfully, I would disagree.

If they weren't willing to spend to keep Alex Mack, I wouldn't go back to the free agency well to address that miss this offseason.

In fact, several teams have drafted centers, played them as rookies, and had success -- including the Browns when we took Mack.

So, to break it all down...Hawley is the best of a bad group of free agents at the center position. He will probably cost about $3M per year for a two year deal, then go get another center in the draft fairly early. He would probably still be the best on our current roster if signed.

Seeing that list of current free agents only reinforces the need to draft a center early (-ish) and let them start early.

More of a prophet, less of a poster.™  #TeamCody

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Re: Out of the abyss, 2017 off season needs, wants, essentials

IrishDawg42 wrote:

Free agency: I really don't know who will be touted as the top free agent in 2017, possibly Tony Romo if the Cowboys give him his outright release, at which point the contenders will be vying for his services...but what about Mike Glennon? Has he proven enough to warrant consideration?

Tony Romo doesn't have anything left and likely isn't going to want to finish his career with an 0-16 or 1-15 football team.

Mike Glennon has been bad his entire career and his really just a back-up at this point.

Who would any of you like to consider for trade?

I wouldn't.

Also, anyone else you would like to discuss in trade, I am all ears..or in this case eyes.

There's an extra option you left out... stand pat.  The free agent list looks atrocious.  The veterans getting released is worse... likely Jay Cutler and Tony Romo.  None of those names sound more exciting that Cody Kessler or Robert Griffin.

As far as a trade goes, I don't think there's a QB out there worth giving up precious draft currency (especially to this F/O) for.  Garrapolo is going to be the most widely-discussed, but that's a system in New England that works and as such, I would steer clear of any QB that played in it.

Now, that doesn't mean we don't add to the roster.  Draft a QB early in the 2017 Draft who can -- but doesn't need to -- start immediately.

More of a prophet, less of a poster.™  #TeamCody

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