American Ripper - History Channel

Discussion in 'Television' started by Catfish, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. Catfish

    Catfish Hall-of-Fame Patreon Gold Flyers Eagles

    crazy show about the great, great grand son of real American serial H. H. Holmes, who was the first American serial killer, and how he thinks Holmes and Jack the Ripper are the same person. 4 episodes in and they make a ton of similarities in the crimes/killings and where Holmes was during the time of the Ripper murders. Seeing how brilliant Holmes was with his "hotel of death" is another part of the show that is amazing to see and how many people he conned from money. the guy had over 61 arrest warrants for not paying off debts and people he swindled before anyone knew he killed people !

    Leonardo Dicaprio is playing Holmes in a new movie from the book - "the Devil in the WHite City."

    Show airs Tuesday nights at 10pm est.
     
  2. AxeMurderer

    AxeMurderer Legend Cowboys

    Is he serious about that, or is that just a device to drive the plot...?
     
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  3. Catfish

    Catfish Hall-of-Fame Patreon Gold Flyers Eagles

    oh no he's serious. the entire show is based on it and he got permission to did up Holmes grave in Yeardon, Pa in May 2017 to do test results on it. He knows he's related to him, but i think they wanted to test DNA evidence in the bones. So far they make a compelling case of the 2 people being 1 with timeline matches and ships manifests with several of Holmes' alias traveling to London at the same time as the killings of Jack the Ripper. he leaves London and the murders stop. that could be a coincidence or not? They have pulled up testimonies of the Ripper murder victims and how skillfully the killings were done. Holmes was a Doctor who loved to perform dissections, so that's a small connection. There are others too.

    to me - the premise IS to drive up the show's interest, but to show Holmes as this superior con man bf he was even thought of as a serial killer was very interesting. the connections they're making are quite good and there are more to come. i like the show. that's all i can say.
     
  4. AxeMurderer

    AxeMurderer Legend Cowboys

    Whether the connection is real or not, if you like the show that's what matters. I'm having a hard time seeing Holmes as The Ripper, just as I'm not believing the sudden renewed interest in the James Maybrick case.
     
  5. Catfish

    Catfish Hall-of-Fame Patreon Gold Flyers Eagles

    AXE-im sure you have your reasons to why you don't think they are the same person.I'm curious to why don't you think they are the same person...?

    I knew little about him besides the Hotel of Death he created and he was buried in Yeardon, Pa and his body was exhumed in May of 2017. This series is 4 episodes in and they have shown several ties that Holmes was in England at the time of the Ripper murders via boat manifests and he was skilled in dissection and had medical experience. The 2 authentic Ripper letters were deemed to be written by an American, due to the word play of several words written on the pages, not someone from England. Now that could be anyone, but it only enlightens watching the series a little more.

    They are showing more and more proof it could be him, not proof he isn't him. That's why I keep watching. It's probably all fluff and it's not him, but they make a good case 4 episodes in.
     
  6. AxeMurderer

    AxeMurderer Legend Cowboys

    Their respective MOs are just soooo different. It seems to me implausible that Holmes went from the maniacal frenzy that embodied the Ripper's killings to being a neat, orderly, kill-for-money murderer. Second, the Ripper KNEW those backstreets and alleys of Whitechapel well - how much time did Holmes spend there? Was he THAT familiar with the area?
     
  7. Catfish

    Catfish Hall-of-Fame Patreon Gold Flyers Eagles

    ^^ see axe - that's what i thought till i watched. their killing patterns are similar and they both snuffed out their victims first and then killed them ! Jack the Ripper didn't just slice them up and take off running. he was cold and calculated as Holmes was. Both had medical background to do the cutting they did. It was precise work.

    Holmes worked for his Uncle who worked with dead bodies as a young kid and helped out dissecting bodies at 19 - he was very skilled with a knife and dissection.

    the ripper murders were actually carefully planned. they were not in a maniacal frenzy pattern. the cops then had a beat to walk and had to be back at a certain point in 15 min. jack knew where to be and where would the cops be as he knew their beats. that's not maniacal. and he was precise with his cutting and incisions as well. and i think 2 murders happened in the same night when the cops were away on their beats. again -that takes time to scope out their beats and knowing when and where they would be etc.

    and holmes was in England and London at the same time! he took a ship over there several times and for a 6 month stretch was there-ships logs proves he was there and there is no report of him in US. The US trail goes cold of any cons or murders and the Ripper killings start. then 5 weeks after the last Ripper murder - boom, Holmes' name is on a ship's log back to the US!

    Unlike most tv shows that claim of lost gold, Hitler in Argentina, UFOs and Aliens, and anything on Expedition Unknown or that assclown Josh Gates, this show isn't some toying the audience show of hope an then boom - sorry it's all untrue ! they are speaking to excops and historians with actual documents of many of the things they discuss on the show. they are uncovering real proof of evidence with real documents etc, not some hearsay crap most tv shows do. my 2 cents on it.

    i think it's worth watching.
     
  8. AxeMurderer

    AxeMurderer Legend Cowboys

    I really couldn't disagree more. There's no concrete evidence that the Ripper had any sort of medical background, and Jack wasn't as precise and methodical as you're making him out to be - there was positive identification after one of the murders, and on the night of the Double Event he was interrupted during the first killing - that's likely why he needed a second victim, because he hadn't gotten the "frenzy" out of his system.

    Beyond that, Holmes didn't come close to duplicating this m.o. in America.
     
  9. Catfish

    Catfish Hall-of-Fame Patreon Gold Flyers Eagles

    im not making him out to be. the evidence on the show is telling the audience he had surgical skill by the Doctor's accounts of the 5 dead bodies. well how do you think he was cutting them open and removing organs? do you think he was some hacker?

    that positive ID was what exactly? positive means Joe Smith was there etc. People saw white make between 25-40 years of age and somewhat tall. That could be a lot of men. and the tv show went through 7 eye witness accounts of Jack and they had a forensic artist draw him using today's computers of what and how they described him. Hell, it could be me!

    i don't think it was a frenzy. he wanted to complete what he started. he's a psychopath. he doesn't need a reason!

    and axe-some serial killers do change their m.o. to get the police off their trail. Holmes possibly drowned his own cousin when he was 18 or 19. He evolved from drowning to poisoning people in his death castle to slicing people up. that's 3 changes to his m.o. right there.

    to the show investigated a possible murder in NY of a woman who had her throat slit. they dug a little more. back then if a woman had her throat slit and no other evidence was presented - it was ruled a SUICIDE! pretty hard to cut your own throat that way and it was 4 or 5 woman all in NY in 1890 that died in this way. Could be coincidence, but Holmes was there at that time and had solid evidence he had killed 1 woman in NY.

    NEXT WEEK's Episode is key. Holmes operated a concrete business on the shores of the Chicago River. They are looking for concrete boxes to see if bones were incase in cement and then tossed into the river. i believe they found one and will bust it open.
     
  10. AxeMurderer

    AxeMurderer Legend Cowboys

    And other accounts posited that the Ripper didn't necessarily have any medical or anatomical knowledge. A butcher would have those skills (if you want to call it that). So would a hunter.

    The point behind the ID was that Jack wasn't as meticulous and careful as you're suggesting. He was spotted after a murder; he was interrupted during another.

    You ever see the mortuary photos of Catherine Eddows? Or the crime scene photos of Mary Kelly? COMPLETE frenzy - there's no other way to describe the carnage.
     
  11. Catfish

    Catfish Hall-of-Fame Patreon Gold Flyers Eagles

    ^^ i never heard of anyone using that term like that in that context until you just did. savagery or butchery are better terms.

    see the show or not. im finding out a lot about both people.
     
  12. AxeMurderer

    AxeMurderer Legend Cowboys

    Oh, I'm definitely interested in the show - I just don't see Holmes as The Ripper. :)

    Saw an interesting quote from Erik Larson. When he was preparing "Devil in the White City" he apparently had thoughts about Holmes being the Ripper but he said "the chronologies didn't work out." I'd love to hear more on what he meant by that.
     
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  13. Catfish

    Catfish Hall-of-Fame Patreon Gold Flyers Eagles

    ^^ yeah what does that mean exactly?
     
  14. Catfish

    Catfish Hall-of-Fame Patreon Gold Flyers Eagles

    the series ends next week. they are still waiting from chicago officials to go in the chicago river to pull up concrete blocks to see if people are buried in them since holmes owned a concrete company or building next to the river. im smelling they don't even touch on that segment now. since the show is ending with 1 episode left and they focus on digging up the real HH Holmes' body, which happened this past May, to see what was really in the grave as Holmes paid for 2 lots and wanted to be buried in concrete. they are trying to say that Holmes faked his death, paid off the guards since his testimony of 27 victims netted him a ton of money and equal to $275,000 today! why else have 2 lots when most people have 1 and why was his grave over 10 feet deep when most are 6-8 feet deep and why the concrete? that's to hide something in his grave or prevent grave robbers from getting in there. well it all ends next week.

    im not that impressed with it now. a lot of "what ifs" or "maybes." i wanted to see what was in the concrete blocks but they never went back to it. everything they say is suspect and could've happened. well so can a lot of things. that's not real proof. i will admit, a lot of weird things went on with Holmes being in England and having tools from Sheffield, England in his possession and the ships logs of him leaving England after the time of the Ripper killings, but still all coincidences. I still think that newspapers used the term "Ripper Killings," or "Ripper Like Killings," years later for other murders in the US in cities where Holmes was familiar and had a past like in NY and Philly. But again, to assume it was him is assuming a lot.
     
  15. Catfish

    Catfish Hall-of-Fame Patreon Gold Flyers Eagles

    axe-holmes was in england at the time of the ripper murders, so i have no idea why larson is saying their "chronologies didn't work out." unless he means something else?
     
  16. AxeMurderer

    AxeMurderer Legend Cowboys

    Has that been verified? Who's reporting that?
     
  17. Catfish

    Catfish Hall-of-Fame Patreon Gold Flyers Eagles

    watch the damn show! i said it 3 times. they have 3 different ships logs that he was a passenger on or he used one of his alias on. they covered this in 2 episodes. holmes was there at least 3 different times per the ships logs when he was there, he wasn't listed in the US in any fashion but was before and after he came back from the UK!

    and these 2 investigated it and once they got the ships logs - they proved it. no one from Scotland Yard is doing this investigating or research anymore, so no one is reporting it. These 2 are doing most if not all the leg work for this show.
     

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